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My new to me Universal M1

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by MosinT53Hunter, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    Hello all, I finally got my Universal, gen 1, out of lay-a-way prison. I have a question though for those the have one of these. When you take the hand guard off, is it rough underneath? I just wondered if this is common to this rifle. Thank you in advance.



    carbine.jpg carbine 2.jpg
     
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  2. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    They definitely didn't waste any polishing effort in spots that were hidden beneath the wood, but mine isn't quite that rough. Still, that just appears to be artifact left over from welding on the gas block- I wouldn't worry too much about it.

    What stood out to me is your flat bolt! That is obviously an early GI part and very rare on Universals! Also, your wood appears rather matte compared to mine which is a high gloss laquer finish- pretty, but not too durable.
    I wonder if someone stripped it down to try to give it a more GI appearance.
    IMG_20180629_005706.jpg
    Also, most Universals had bayonet lugs- it was quicker and cheaper to just use surplus Type 3 upper bands than cut them down into Type 2s.

    Does it look like someone Dremeled out the trigger housing opening in the wood? Need pics of the top of the stock, too, in the action area.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  3. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    Yes, I was very happy to see that the flat bolt was on the M1, so later I will take it all apart and see what all lies under everything. The finish on the stock is very smooth, and almost feels squarish, and very large in the pistol grip area. Been thinking of maybe getting a GI stock and maybe a GI trigger guard and swap them over in the near future. I will go and take some pictures in a minute of the front of the forearm.
     
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  4. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    carbine 3.jpg carbine 4.jpg carbine 6.jpg carbine 5.jpg

    Well, here's what I could take tonight. I will do more with my proper camera tomorrow when I can get to it next. Seems to be factory on the stock, and on the bayonet lugs, I can't tell if they were modified at one time or not. The ad for the rifle said it had been reblued, so I don't know if they did more to it too. Doesn't seem recent from my eyes.
     
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  5. .455_Hunter

    .455_Hunter Member

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    What's your serial number?

    My recently acquired number 27XXX has a flat bolt, bayonet lug and the polished stock.
     
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  6. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Ya, looks like somebody dabbed on some cold blue at one point and may have stripped the wood. The upper band is a later production Universal stamped piece. The long cutout on the inner side of the wood was for the Universal scope mount- I'll wager there are some threaded hole in the LH side of the receiver for the mount as well.

    As you know, the trigger housing is aluminum and not standard shaped (on later G1s like yours). I swapped my trigger housing for a GI steel part, all of the small bits dropped right in and only minor filing was needed to fit the housing to the receiver. As mine is a very early G1, the stock inletting matches the GI trigger group, but while I believe a GI housing would work on your gun, there would be rather unsightly gaps on either side of the trigger guard in the wood unless you also went with a GI stock.

    While you have it apart, I would check the gas piston nut for looseness/backing out. These are staked at the factory- make sure the staking marks are still lined up. Also, this is a good time to gift the old girl with a fresh recoil spring.

    It looks like your mag catch is the earlier, 2-hook type. If you plan on running 30-round mags, you will probably want to upgrade that to a 3-hook. The flip safety is interchangeable with the older pushbutton type which I think looks cleaner.

    When reassembling, check the fit of the recoil plate and look for cracks in the stock around the plate. Over-tightening of the plate screw it the best way to ruin a Carbine stock. Finally, as I'm sure you know, when properly fitted, the barrel should float just above the stock wood when the action is set into the recoil plate before the upper handguard is installed and tightened down- this is critical for achieving good accuracy from a carbine.

    Nice gun, and great score!
     
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  7. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    80XXX. :)
     
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  8. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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  9. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    Very nice. :) :)
     
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  10. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    Thanks for all the info and encouragement. :) I plan on making as "GI" as I can, just a matter of time and money. Least I have the basics to start with, and go from there. I will give it a through going over before I shoot it.
    I think I will stick with the original 15 rounders, I like them, and will be getting the pouch to hold more on the stock as time goes by.
    Stock wise, I am going to change it out, nothing like a good old walnut stock with nicks and gouges from time. The trigger pack is something I will be learning from, and hope to put on the push button safety, never liked the lever flipping up and down, reminds me of the last minute ones they put on the imported TT33 pistols when they first came on the market.

    Anyways, I thank each and every one that has put their input into my new find, and I will be posting better pictures of it when I can. Its going to be fun. :)
     
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  11. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Only problem with the pouch, and the reason I don't have one on any of my carbines, is that if you have a nice stock, they rub and scratch it beneath the pouch....... Also, you may have to remove the action to put it on, which is a pain if you already have it fitted nice and tight.

    I use WorldWarSupply.com for most of my Carbine Accessories, and Fulton armory has a goodly supply of high quality new and used parts. Dupage trading is a great source for new, old stock parts too.

    Even though you bolt is GI, take a close look at the extractor too- if you see a casting line, it is not GI and I would highly recommend a GI replacement extractor, detent ball, and spring. I get them pretty cheap from Fulton.

    The internal trigger bits on mine were Universal made and obviously castings, though they seemed well made and I can't find any evidence online that they were prone to failure. Eventually, I did replace my hammer and trigger with GI bits, though. I got my housing from Amherst Depot for, IIRC, $45. Not sure if he has any left. At one time he had complete USGI trigger groups, but they ran around $200......

    Dupage would be a good place to call for trigger group parts too.

    Fulton Armory has really nice new stocks they source from Boyds in two different grades- IMO, the premium one is worth the extra $$.

    I would try DuPage Trading for a decent used GI stock set.

    Good luck, bro!
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  12. amd6547

    amd6547 Member

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    I use a 1943 GI mag pouch on my Inland. I can get it on and off the stock without disassembling the Carbine. As far as scratching, that is caused by the snap on the off side of the pouch. I stuck a piece of stick on Velcro inside the pouch to cover the snap...others use tape.
     
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  13. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Depends on the stock pattern you have. The "potbelly" and M2 patterns are too porky to slide it over with the action in place.
     
  14. kBob

    kBob Member

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    That annoying male snap on the inside of the "belt loop" of the M1 carbine ammo pouch fit the female snap just to the wearer's left of the belt buckle on the WWII era Pistol belt. It help the pouch in place so the wearer could find it easily and it did not slide around. There are also 1911A1 Pouches with the snap for the same reason.

    There were also 15 round carbine pouches with two canvas belt loops on the back that won't go over a carbine stock.

    As a kid I thought it darned handy to have a pistol belt with room for my bayonet and machete and a non moving pouch of two 15 round magazines to go with my carbine with a similar pouch on the stock and a mag in the gun for 75 rounds good to go......just in case those Cuban Paratroopers invaded while I was wandering the swamp.

    I wished later that had a single M16A1 20 rounder pouch set up the same way for when I had Payroll guard and the officer insisted on a rifle. My own Platoon leader allowed me to carry a 1911A1 for the duty but the XO and second platoon leader wanted a rifle at their back and they only issued me two mags. Had to carry the spare 20 rounder in a pocket.

    -kBob
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  15. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    Well, small hiccup...I can't take it all the way apart, because where the trigger pack pin holds it onto the receiver, a small corner is cracked, looks like it might have even broken off at one time. So, someone before me glued it back on with something like lacquer, its clear and dried hard, but it also coats the pin that I need to take off. So...it may be a while before I get it off, and getting a USGI trigger pack will have to be sooner then later it seems. Guess I will just put it all back together, take it out to the range and see what she can do, meanwhile put things on my wish list at Numrich.
     
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  16. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Get some GI magazines. Most jamming problems with Carbines are because of crap aftermarket magazines.
     
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  17. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    No worries on that. I like the original USGI 15 round magazines, so that's on my list. The one I got came with one Winchester marked one. I will add to the collection as I can. :)
     
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  18. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    Its been a scorching weekend, but I had to see how my Universal shot, so I did a quick 15 round spot. Here's how it went:

    Clicked magazine in, nice tight fit, rack slide back, and...doesn't feed. Using the only ammo I have at the moment, Remington SP 110's. I pop the magazine catch...hmm, doesn't seem to want to pop out. Fiddled with it, then got it out. Must be the old springs in the Winchester magazine... I take one round out, then try again. Same thing. Take another round out, pushed on the bottom of the magazine in, then I was able to slam it home. Line up the shot, "bang", next round, "click." So after the wait to see if it would fire after pointing the rifle to the ground, I eject the round.
    In the end, I found out it will hold and fire 5 rounds at a time consistently.

    Time to put it away until I read up on how to fix it, and look for replacement springs for the magazine, or replacement of the whole magazine. Its going to be a learning curve, and that's fine, I enjoy projects and challenges. Will post again when I have it out again. :)
     
  19. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Sounds to me like the damaged housing is causing misalignment of the magazine to chamber, which is made worse by the increased spring pressure of a fully loaded mag. That housing probably took a fairly good hit at some point to break off a corner- this could have thrown its dimensions all off.

    Also, the mag catch on mine was pretty sloppy in its sliding track when I got it. That was what prompted me to seek out a GI housing in the first place. I say try a fresh mag- the new production Korean ones are supposed to be good- and if it still has issues, replace the trigger housing before going any further. Good luck!
     
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  20. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    Thank you. I am going to see about getting the fully assembled trigger pack from Numrich, along with a surplus stock in the very near future. I had a hunch that that might be the case. Better to know now then later. I will post updates as I do my up grades. :)
     
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  21. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Right on, bro.
    Ya, the Universal trigger internal parts were of decent quality and they dropped right into my housing. If you find a good deal on a stripped one, I say snag it as the complete ones can be pretty pricey. It was quite a bit later that I found a GI trigger and hammer at a gun show in a box of spare parts, so I swapped them out just 'cuz. There was really nothing wrong with the Uni. internal parts- they were castings, not forged, but then AFAIK all the current manufacturers use castings too and you never really hear about them breaking.:)
     
  22. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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  23. imashooter

    imashooter Member

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    I remember buying a new Universal from Montgomery Ward around 70/71. Seems like it was about 110.00 out the door. two or three years later I sold it to a friend. A bit later I bought a new basic wood stock SA M1A for about 280.00 out the door.
     
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  24. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    Well, looks like it will have to be sooner then later. Have an update, I guess. I will look at what that guy has, and compare what is available. I think a youtube video about stripping the trigger pack for the universal is in order, and swap out what I have. Thank you for everything, sorry for the slow response.
     
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  25. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

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    Well, up date on my Universal M1 carbine adventures. As I wrote before, when I checked it over before shooting, I noticed a crack in the trigger housing with what looked to be lacquer covering the take down pin as well. So, I took it out shooting, didn't end too well, so I put it away for a few days. I decided to take it all the way down, and guess what I found? Yep, that piece is cracked and broken off. Lucky me! :(:cuss:
    carbine break 2.jpg

    None too pretty...

    carbine break.jpg

    So, I guess I will be getting a USGI trigger housing sooner then later, different stock too, and see what's on youtube for a take down video for the trigger pack, see what is needed for a swap of parts. Wish me luck, will up date as I come across parts and pieces. It sure is dirty inside, caked with unburned powder and bone dry. I have my work cut out for me. Wish me luck!
     
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