My observation regarding firearm consumers and producers, whats yours oldtimers?

[Das Pferd]

I am not an old timer but I still have perceptions of this.

I am never into more then one hobby at a time for some reason. It rotates between four wheeling, firearms, and backpacking on about a yearly basis. It is usually never two or all three at the same time. As such I have made some interesting observations.

A while ago (to me at least) handguns like the Kahr, Springfield XD series, and Steyr were not thought of very highly by the majority of handgun enthusiats for whatever reasons. As such the price for these firearms were low. Now that they have been around for a while, they are getting better reputations. The prices are going up. I know this has to do with supply and demand. The more demand, the same supply, and the prices go up.

Its just intersting that often when a gun comes out it is maligned however over time the truth finally comes out about it whether its good or bad.

Same arguments still rage on about Glocks.

The 1911 will ever die. Opinions of it have never changed.

When we have hand held ray guns some manufacturer will still be producing the 1911.

What I would really be interested in is this. Those of you who have been doing this for years, decades even, what have you noticed about different trends in the firearms world. And I dont mean the obvious like the switch from revolvers to semi autos, thats obvious. Have fun.....

 

[Standing Wolf]

There's often a great deal of resistance in the firearms market to new ideas. Writers for gun magazines jump on them instantly whether they're good, bad, or otherwise—new is new is new, after all—and younger shooters tend to give them a try.

I remember when stainless steel guns first hit the streets. Every gun magazine was packed to the rafters with articles about them. I decided at the outset I'd hurry up and wait to see how they worked out, and continued to buy blued firearms. Sure enough, those early stainless guns proved to have all manner of metalurgical problems, which were addressed by and bye.

I'd still rather buy blued, but stainless has become the norm, doubtless because it costs less to finish.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Plastic is the biggest change.

I grew up with the steel and wood gun like the M1, 1911, Luger, P38.
Even plastic grips were pretty way out.

I remember when the Remington Nylon 66 22 rifle came out.
No way was anyone ever going to buy that thing.
Even our toy cap guns were metal.

Eventually I got one in a trade. I still wasn't going to pay money for a toy plastic gun.

When the wife used the Nylon 66 to clean house two days at a turkey shoot the men were about to bar her toy plastic gun.

But one of the men she beat asked if he could use her rifle the next round.

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

Over some 35 year's or so, I find the following of Glock's
to be the most fasinating thing to come along, since the
introduction of the 1911 style semi-auto handgun. The
Glocks have made a large scale headway into the U.S.
firearms market; with just about any firearms person
willing to try one out! I know that was the case
with me; at first it was the G-17, then the G-23, and
finally the G-27. After a brief Glock experience, I have
returned to the one semi-auto that I dearly love; the
.45 caliber SIG-SAUER P220A. And, I'm getting somewhat
reacquainted with the 1911; in the form of a GI version
WW-II Springfield MIL-SPEC.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Delmar]

The 1911 will never die. Opinions of it have never changed.

There is a reason the 1911 is a classic. It works. Things which do not work do not become true classics.

Can't say the same thing about cars-who would have ever thought a Nash-Metropolitan, Edsel, or 1959 Chevy would become a classic?

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

I'm pretty retro these days.Started out with the usual center/rimfire rifles and pistols.Then I got a muzzleloader rifle for hunting.Then I got another,now I am getting into flintlocks....rifle and pistol,None have any "plastic"in their construction...

 

[Tharg]

HK i hear is credited for the first Polymer frame guns... the p7 i think? Dunno - just pullin from my behind... but thats what i heard.

My first gun was a Llama 1911 - it didn't know where it wanted to place spent shells... left, right, or hit me in the head - got rid of it and bought my HK USP compact... it works just dandy - plastic and all =)

J/Tharg!

 

[sm]

I agree with Standing Wolf's post.

I'm 49, I am hesitant / leary of change. I have seen the "fads" the mad rush to be first on the block...only to see something fail - once again - and the 1911, the blue and wood model 10 and such, be put back in use.

I see folks my age regretful over selling a gun like a High Standard, Colt Woodsman, old Smith or Colt wheel gun, Model 12, SX1, Beretta 303 or 1100 shotgun...etc - being razzed by the younger folks for spending that kind of monies on that "old of a design", while they make over the lastest greatest drastic plastic.

We figure give 'em 15yrs...they will then be the ones being razzed for doing the same thing they used to razz others about...

 

[rayra]

Thing I've noticed over ~25yrs of personal firearms involvement - the stampedes re different calibers.
Wondernine Fever.
.45
10mm
.45
.40
.45

 

[whm1974]

I'd still rather buy blued, but stainless has become the norm, doubtless because it costs less to finish.

And stainless steel doesn't rust overnight either.

Thing I've noticed over ~25yrs of personal firearms involvement - the stampedes re different calibers.
Wondernine Fever.
.45
10mm
.45
.40
.45

I think the Clinton Gun Ban had a lot to do with the .45 becoming popular again. It also made the .40 S&W popular as well...

-Bill

 

[Dienekes]

Back when I was a kid a guy with 3-4 handguns was considered to be quite a pistolero. He also probably was living in about a 1000 square foot house and driving a Ford or Chevy with a stick shift.

IMHO we have some disconnects these days on the houses, cars, and, yes, the guns. Most of us (and I include myself) have way more stuff than we need and after a while wonder why the hell we bought this or that gun. Sometimes if seems that it's just an ego thing and we're just heaping up iron. The NW coastal Indians used to have a custom, called the potlatch-- of amassing entire piles of stuff and giving it all away to show how rich and important they were.

Around here it's legend that the less I have invested in a gun the more fun I'm probably going to have with it. (Usually shoot it better as well.)

I am lucky enough to have some nice pieces and lucky enough to really appreciate them. I like to wander around gun shows and see the pretty stuff, but am quite content with the ones I married.

On the rare occasions I buy a new one I know that I'm just hunmoring myself and it ain't for serious.

 

[Tharg]

heh - see my exp is something different =(

every time i buy something that don't cost too much - it dont' work right.

I don't keep a gun that don't work right.

Be it my own inability to clean it correctly (new gun whatnot) or something i've done wrong i couldn't tell ya (I'm by no means perfect) but every time i get a gun that doesn't do what its supposed to and i've done the things i think should have fixed it... its time to get a different one and give up the ghost on the non-operating one =) (got no use for a gun that don't work right )

Just been my experience that the cheaper one's are the ones that usually bite me... be it the .45 llama 1911 that hit me in the head w/ spent shells - or the knockoff hi-power that jammed the last brass of its first 3 mags in backwards (i've NEVER heard of that happening) its time to go.

My stupid HK that cost me lots of cash comparably has never had a jam, always ejected perfect, and never misfired.... i know that any auto is expected to eventually - but this one never has ever, which is good enough for me, plastic and all =)

Still trying to figure out what is wrong w/ my Dad's gun... he gave it to me... the same 1894 i've mentioned in a different thread - a lot of times it fails to properly eject the brass w/ the lever action.... Try not to think about it too much - its a play gun and a very distant backup... but it bugs me that it doesn't work right all the time. =) Guess i'll figure it out if i'm a gonna keep it....

J/Tharg!

 

[M38]

Things are much better now than when I was a kid in the 60's & 70's regarding firearms and ammunition. There is a much bigger selection of both. Auto's that can function reliably with hollowpoint ammo, stainless guns, much more accurate out-of-the-box rifles and ammo, better optics. Capitalism works.

 

[Rickstir]

Almost in line with this post. Three years ago during a special doe hunt in January with 1 foot of snow on the ground, my brother and I shot three does almost at the same time. We were in a hollow about 800 yards from the house. He walked back to the house and came back on his 4-wheeler. We tied all three deer to the back and he pulled them up and out of the hollow, all the way to the house. We are both in our late 50's. That incident proved that I should have a 4-wheeler and subsequently bought a Polaris Sportsman 500.

If something came along in the gun world that proved its value to me as well as the 4-wheeler, I would probably jump on the bandwagon.

 

[Art Eatman]

I've seen two major changes in the world of shooting during my time as a "gunner".

The first is the notable increase in handguns. Until the 1960s, there just weren't all that many people really all that interested in them--compared to rifles and shotguns.

The second is the interest in para-military weapons; EBRs, also, began showing up in the 1960s. Before that, about the only military weapons were bolt actions, and they were regarded primarily as a platform for custom rifles. The Garand and the GI Carbine were mostly owned for nostalgia.

Art

 

[Texian Pistolero]

RE: the 1911.

In the last decade there has been a proliferation of 'shall issue" state laws and the number of those who take advantage of them.

But the M1911 is a heavy steel gun, and only handles 7 + 1. It is not an optimium CCW, unless you choose to take the disadvantages to get the advantages.

 

[Delmar]

But the M1911 is a heavy steel gun

Thats right, Sonny-and if I have to pistol whip em, it ain't gonna be with a piece of tupperware

Disadvantages? There's a lota guys running around with 5 and 6 shot wheelguns, and I see no disadvantages.......

 

[Das Pferd]

The second is the interest in para-military weapons; EBRs, also, began showing up in the 1960s. Before that, about the only military weapons were bolt actions, and they were regarded primarily as a platform for custom rifles. The Garand and the GI Carbine were mostly owned for nostalgia.

Do you think this could be because of Hollywood?

Prior to the 60's the biggest movies with guns were westerns. Then more modern war movies started coming out with semi auto guns in them.

Maybe this accounts for peoples tastes changing.

 

[El Tejon]

If you want to see the current gun trends, just watch the latest movies.

Look at all the movie gun posts on THR! It rivals bears, pumas and zombies combined.

 

[TallPine]

Well, I've finally come to the conlusion that this smokeless powder fad is now here to stay.

 

[sm]

TallPine

That may be true...
I going backwards perhaps...I now have a hankering for a BP Shotgun. Must be the internet, DR. Rob and a certain moderator named GARY!

Art makes a good point , as do the suggestions of movies. I dunno , I see see folks my age hit that dimension dealie...dang elders knew of what they were talking about all this time.

Me, I never wandered off from what I grew up with. Be it platforms or calibers.

Of course I'm the guy with the old man looking car , I paid $350 for and was teased. Until the fancy boys with the fancy cars and payments broke down and needed a ride. I only put 100K miles on it before I sold it for $285.

My group bought the used "sleepers", sweat equity and ...it might look like grandma's car...but grandma's car never did this around corners...

 

[Penforhire]

I'm thinking of new materials and processes. Plastics and titanium for example. Or void free castings and MIM (I know most don't think MIM is good).

I don't think we've taken improved materials and processes to their limits, even given today's technologies. But the production volume of particular weapons don't sound high enough for manufacturers to take big risks, like S&W's Scandium models.

I'm thinking lighter weight, higher strength, more fatigue resistant, corrosion resistant (including environmental factors like UV or ozone), higher lubricity, easier to clean ... I suppose this is everything except lower price!

 

[Roadkill]

observations

The demise of gunshows and the availability of milsurps.

rk

 

[John Ross]

More and better choices of just about everything. Some examples:

Accurate rifles. The factories turn out rifles that are much more accurate than they were 40 years ago. Small-volume houses make stuff a 1960 benchrester would've killed for.

Reloading equipment. Progressives are everywhere, tools to load .50 BMG, hand tools, furnaces, custom molds, you name it, all at less cost in constant dollars than ever before. More and better powders, cases and especially bullets.

Caliber choices. The FN 5.7 and S&W 500 address two areas unavailable at any price five years ago, at what I consider to be very reasonable cost. Other calibers fill niches everywhere, both rifle and pistol. (.17 HMR, .50 BMG, etc.)

Durable finishes. Corrosion is now nearly impossible with many guns.

Cheap blasting ammo. 8 cents for n/c 9mm, 9 cents for .223 and 12 cents for .45? 4 cents for corrosive 8x57? .50 Spotter bullets for a quarter? I'll take a pallet of each, please.

Milsurps. Never this good since the glory days in the '50s of Sam Cummings and INTERARMCO.

Optics. More and better choices than ever before. Laser rangefinders. Night vision.

Specialty offerings. CNC has made short runs of repros like the M95 .405 possible, all with modern steels.

Custom guns. Go to the ACGG show in Nevada for a stunning display of just how many people are doing top-drawer work.

Competition. Silhouette, IPSC, Cowboy, Bowling Pin, .50 cal. BR, and others didn't exist 35 years ago.

General climate. Not just sporting only but now also heavily focused on CCW and Constitutional issues. Millions of new people, especially women, who don't care about duck hunting (recreation) and care everything about individual rights (freedom).

Only one serious negative: FOPA 1986's MG freeze has finally taken recreational MG ownership out of the hands of all but the most ardent middle-class shooters and turned it into a rich man's game.

JR

 

[Kodiak AK]

Re first plastic:

That would be the HK Vp 70.