mgregg85
Member
so school buses are as bad as airlines now?
My son "busted" for saying "gun" on bus.
- Thread starter Intune
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RioShooter
Member
Take comfort in these two words: Home Schooling.
I've been a public school teacher for 34 years, and there's no way I'd place my kids in government schools. Today as I left school, two 6th grade girls were in the office, bruised and bleeding, after being attacked by a group of older girls.
I repeat, do not place your children in the care of the government.
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Intune
Member
Please guys, no more personal attacks. This is too important. I don't want to see a lock. Trust me, Ad is a good, respectful young man. Oleg, Bogie, OEF_VET and quite a few others have met him & my daughter. Heck, after a range cleanup we did in Ashland City, O_V presented Ad with a Marlin .22. This is not about my son folks... Thanks.
i remember in HS (10 years back but still in the zero tolerance era) i used to intentionally try to make people hit me in front of teachers so that they would get suspended and i wouldnt... course the same policies bit me in the ass a few years later, monday after a boy scout campout... sitting in class when the filet knife i had carried on the campout fell out of my back pack... boom, instant 6 month explusion
littlegator
Member
I remember getting bussed in the 6th grade a long time ago. I can't believe the driver could make it to school every day - she was always looking in the big mirror above her instead of the road, making sure we weren't getting out of line. She was a mean one, that lady...
Kingcreek
Member
Folks, it might be a mistake to paint all public schools/administrators/school boards with the same broad brush.
Sure, there are problems, but not shared by all.
I hope this thread stays open for Intune and for his son's sake. Best wishes.
Sure, there are problems, but not shared by all.
I hope this thread stays open for Intune and for his son's sake. Best wishes.
Get him a new wardrobe... Guns and Roses shirt, NRA shirt, Smith and Wesson shirt, Winchester Hat, Velvet Revolver shirt
Buy him some new cd's: Guns & Roses, Velvet Revolver, Beatles ( Happiness is a warm gun ), Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band, LA Guns, AC/DC ( big guns, shoot to thrill, shot down in flames...) .38 special.
Great lesson to teach the kids.... just don't speak of something and it'll go away... It's not the gun that kills people, it's the word "gun"....
Buy him some new cd's: Guns & Roses, Velvet Revolver, Beatles ( Happiness is a warm gun ), Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band, LA Guns, AC/DC ( big guns, shoot to thrill, shot down in flames...) .38 special.
Great lesson to teach the kids.... just don't speak of something and it'll go away... It's not the gun that kills people, it's the word "gun"....
ZigZagZeke,
Okay, that has like nothing at all to do with this thread, and your post is just a really good example of why we manage to run off 99% of our female posters.
Let's keep this thread on topic, and not branch off into whatever weird topic pushes our buttons.
Okay, that has like nothing at all to do with this thread, and your post is just a really good example of why we manage to run off 99% of our female posters.
Let's keep this thread on topic, and not branch off into whatever weird topic pushes our buttons.
This all reminds me of all the things we used to get away with. More than one time, my dual duty backpack went to school with a BB pistol that was used over the weekend and never put away. Even had teachers who were ok with it and took interest. I think all my friends back in school either carried a swiss army or leatherman knife each day.
A friend of mine in high school forgot he had a BP speedloader in his jacket, rather than hiding it, he got to "show and tell" in class and light the powder!
We regularly made blow darts in homec, explosives in chemistry and physical science, stunguns and jacobs ladders in shop/electronics.
I could go on and on. No harm was ever done, the teachers I knew took interest and encouraged learning safety with science and mechanics. We got to make ANFO once, but couldn't set it off. Also had a science teacher that'd fill balloons with Hydrogen for us to play with....
Nothing like this is acceptable today and that in itself is a problem. The general ideal now is to keep avoiding things, but you can't avoid things that simply exist. We were encouraged to learn about the things that interested us, no matter how potentially dangerous. We were taught safety and responsibility rather than fear and avoidance.
A friend of mine in high school forgot he had a BP speedloader in his jacket, rather than hiding it, he got to "show and tell" in class and light the powder!
We regularly made blow darts in homec, explosives in chemistry and physical science, stunguns and jacobs ladders in shop/electronics.
I could go on and on. No harm was ever done, the teachers I knew took interest and encouraged learning safety with science and mechanics. We got to make ANFO once, but couldn't set it off. Also had a science teacher that'd fill balloons with Hydrogen for us to play with....
Nothing like this is acceptable today and that in itself is a problem. The general ideal now is to keep avoiding things, but you can't avoid things that simply exist. We were encouraged to learn about the things that interested us, no matter how potentially dangerous. We were taught safety and responsibility rather than fear and avoidance.
In all honesty, every public school I know of has no-tolerance policies and the administrators always stand behind them regardless of the circumstances or how stupid the offense.
There was a story in the news a while back that a high school student, who happened to also be an Olympic shooter, was late for school and neglected to remove a box of shells from her jeep... No gun, mind you, just the shells, and she was suspended. Straight A's, Olympic athlete card and all other evidence to her achievements and good nature to the contrary.
I've rarely heard of a zero-tolerance punishment fitting the crime.
glockman19
Member
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I can understand getting suspended from riding the bus but to miss school?
As the Beatles said, "how I long for yesterday".
When I rode the bus to school in the 1970's you could do just about anything say anything. Only one time the driver ever pullded over and stopped the bus was when there was a fight. Both students were suspended, only from riding the bus.
The most bothersome part is that we are creating a generation of fear based citizens. We've gone fron the great generation, to the can do genertaion, to the Love generation to the now fear generation. We fear the War's on; drugs, poverty, terrorism, hunger etc...Our President tries to motivate us based on Fear of nuclear atack from Iran, Iraq and other 3rd world countries.
As the Beatles said, "how I long for yesterday".
When I rode the bus to school in the 1970's you could do just about anything say anything. Only one time the driver ever pullded over and stopped the bus was when there was a fight. Both students were suspended, only from riding the bus.
The most bothersome part is that we are creating a generation of fear based citizens. We've gone fron the great generation, to the can do genertaion, to the Love generation to the now fear generation. We fear the War's on; drugs, poverty, terrorism, hunger etc...Our President tries to motivate us based on Fear of nuclear atack from Iran, Iraq and other 3rd world countries.
Aguila Blanca
Member
Several people warned you not to expect to find a rational administrator. Apparently you chose not to believe them. It has been discussed on this forum numerous times in the past that merely uttering the 'G' word is often now cause for detention, suspension, or even expulsion ... despite the old nursery school rhyme that "words can never hurt me."Intune said:
It seems that while words still cannot hurt, they have in recent times been magically imbued with the capacity to kill. Thus, they must not be permitted inside the hallowed halls of academia.
Remember -- bullets don't kill. The 'G' word does.
Also focus on WHO created whatever "disruption" there was. Your son was not arguing with the bus driver, he was engaged in a private discussion (in a public place) with a friend. He could not, by definition, be "arguing" with the bus driver when he was not addressing her.Joe Demko said:
K3
Member
Which one, God or gun?
Aguila Blanca
Member
You are correct, but that's what they are designed and intended to do, for reasons as stated by Joe Demko. That's not the problem. The problem is that educational administrators have increasingly adopted policies of zero tolerance for actions which are not inherently intolerable.cyclist said:
If someone wants to adopt a zero tolerance policy for assault against another student, I'd be all for it. But when the policy is zero tolerance for "fighting," and "fighting" includes defending oneself against an assault, then the policy is flawed.
I don't necessesarily agree with it, but I can accept a degeree of logic for zero tolerance of firearms in the possession of students on school property. But when zero tolerance for firearms is expanded to include zero tolerance for pictures of firearms, or the use of words connoting firearms, then the policy is flawed.
bogie
Member
"Janie's got a warm gun - bang, bang, shoot shoot..."
You know, you could get him sing "happiness is a warm gun," it'd be okay, because it's about IV drug use...
Zero tolerance is because the administration doesn't think that the teachers, up through principal level, are smart enough to do things correctly on their own...
Idea... Next time he gets to write about something he has done, work something like this....
"So my father held the side of the dog house while I used the nail _ _ _ to attach it to the corner post. After the four sides were together, Dad hooked his compressor up to a paint _ _ _ and we sprayed it a nice bright white. Then we used a staple _ _ _ to attach roofing shingles." See what the English teacher says...
But hey, enough comedy... I'd go after this... School board, PTA (first, ask for a show of hands of Aerosmith fans...), etc... Let's see... Whats sorta country songs have guns in 'em? That'll be REAL popular in the 'ville... Can't talk about Shooter Jennings _or_ about how you shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die...
Tune, are you gonna be able to make it to the Creek in the spring? And is the kid trained well enough to fetch beers? Arne's does pretty well, but seems to lose one occasionally...
You know, you could get him sing "happiness is a warm gun," it'd be okay, because it's about IV drug use...
Zero tolerance is because the administration doesn't think that the teachers, up through principal level, are smart enough to do things correctly on their own...
Idea... Next time he gets to write about something he has done, work something like this....
"So my father held the side of the dog house while I used the nail _ _ _ to attach it to the corner post. After the four sides were together, Dad hooked his compressor up to a paint _ _ _ and we sprayed it a nice bright white. Then we used a staple _ _ _ to attach roofing shingles." See what the English teacher says...
But hey, enough comedy... I'd go after this... School board, PTA (first, ask for a show of hands of Aerosmith fans...), etc... Let's see... Whats sorta country songs have guns in 'em? That'll be REAL popular in the 'ville... Can't talk about Shooter Jennings _or_ about how you shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die...
Tune, are you gonna be able to make it to the Creek in the spring? And is the kid trained well enough to fetch beers? Arne's does pretty well, but seems to lose one occasionally...
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Intune
Member
Ha, if we sent Ad we'd get served. His big sister now... We better send Ad! If I'm in town we'll do it. Been playing a bunch. Would be great to see ya'll again. Saw Oleg & Frank at the range a couple of weeks ago. Ad wanted to go shooting for his 13th bd so I loaded up the Suburban with eager young shooters. Now this crap... 
If I'm in town we'll do it. Been playing a bunch. Would be great to see ya'll again. Saw Oleg & Frank at the range a couple of weeks ago. Ad wanted to go shooting for his 13th bd so I loaded up the Suburban with eager young shooters. Now this crap...
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Intune
Member
AB-
If my son had broken a zero-tolerance policy such as possession of a knife, ammo, porno or the such he would technically be in the wrong, (despite intent,) take his punishment & move along. That is NOT what happened here. He broke no written rule or policy. He did not defy his Principal. He said the word “gun” to a classmate. He is being punished unjustly. The easy route would be to accept it. Is that the right thing to do? Should I add insult to injury with the lesson being bow your head to authority, no matter how misused, and suffer in silence lest additional maltreatment be foisted upon you? Should I stand up to the system at his expense, forcing the administrators to either make it policy (and challengeable) or hopefully, realize the injustice, for the benefit of future students? Would that make him a pariah in their eyes? Is an apology warranted? I’ve read many diverse opinions on this thread. I feel it is.
There is no handbook on parenting. Well, there probably are but I haven’t read one pertaining to this particularly sticky wicket. I want to do the right thing for my son and the system, trusting that the two aren’t mutually exclusive. I don’t know where to go from here. I will go to the school tomorrow and try to obtain the drivers report.
The Student Discipline Report had the following “nature of offence” marked.
1. Willful and persistent violation of the rules of the school or truancy.
2. Any other conduct prejudicial to good order or discipline.
The following was handwritten on the report by the Assistant principal- “Students were asked to stop having conversations about guns. Mrs. (Principal) had warned them two days earlier.”
I have a problem with this.
I’m right there with ya AB.
If my son had broken a zero-tolerance policy such as possession of a knife, ammo, porno or the such he would technically be in the wrong, (despite intent,) take his punishment & move along. That is NOT what happened here. He broke no written rule or policy. He did not defy his Principal. He said the word “gun” to a classmate. He is being punished unjustly. The easy route would be to accept it. Is that the right thing to do? Should I add insult to injury with the lesson being bow your head to authority, no matter how misused, and suffer in silence lest additional maltreatment be foisted upon you? Should I stand up to the system at his expense, forcing the administrators to either make it policy (and challengeable) or hopefully, realize the injustice, for the benefit of future students? Would that make him a pariah in their eyes? Is an apology warranted? I’ve read many diverse opinions on this thread. I feel it is.
There is no handbook on parenting. Well, there probably are but I haven’t read one pertaining to this particularly sticky wicket. I want to do the right thing for my son and the system, trusting that the two aren’t mutually exclusive. I don’t know where to go from here. I will go to the school tomorrow and try to obtain the drivers report.
The Student Discipline Report had the following “nature of offence” marked.
1. Willful and persistent violation of the rules of the school or truancy.
2. Any other conduct prejudicial to good order or discipline.
The following was handwritten on the report by the Assistant principal- “Students were asked to stop having conversations about guns. Mrs. (Principal) had warned them two days earlier.”
I have a problem with this.
Indeed…
I would ask to see the specific language in the school district’s policy that prohibits conversations about firearms in a non-threatening manner. There is a lot more at stake here then the gun issue. This matter needs to be brought out into the open. Do keep us informed.
bg
Member
I'm a school bus driver and if any had any idea how much stress is put on
us by kids, maybe one would pause for a minute and consider that it is
a handful. However, I have to tell ya, if the term "gun" is mentioned on
my bus or route I'm looking to see if one is being brandished. If a kid
just says the word talking to another and it's reported to me, I have
a talk with the kid about it calmly..or as calmly as one can when possible,
regarding what saying certain things or acting a certain way will bring about.
I got to tell ya, I think she over reacted, but with today's kids, especially
the ones in junior and high school, we have to be watching ALL the time
and believe me those in Dispatch and Transportation want to know about
these incidents..It's part of the game.
us by kids, maybe one would pause for a minute and consider that it is
a handful. However, I have to tell ya, if the term "gun" is mentioned on
my bus or route I'm looking to see if one is being brandished. If a kid
just says the word talking to another and it's reported to me, I have
a talk with the kid about it calmly..or as calmly as one can when possible,
regarding what saying certain things or acting a certain way will bring about.
I got to tell ya, I think she over reacted, but with today's kids, especially
the ones in junior and high school, we have to be watching ALL the time
and believe me those in Dispatch and Transportation want to know about
these incidents..It's part of the game.
Kingcreek
Member
Wynder,
I should know better than to step into these threads and I'll offer nothing more than direct advice to Intune and Ad if they want it.
Maybe you don't know enough public schools. I can assure you that your broad statement does not apply to every school and every situation. I am an elected school board member and former board president. Good, well written policies are useful, not gospel. There are still reasonable people in administration and on school boards who will consider all aspects of an issue and act reasonably. You're probably more likely to find them in the rural heartland than the urban districts.
I should know better than to step into these threads and I'll offer nothing more than direct advice to Intune and Ad if they want it.
mons meg
Member
Intune, I drove a bus back in the 90s and the following post from you caught my eye:
This seems to be the universal bus policy for just about every district in the nation. With exceptions for fighting, etc...you would normally expect not to be suspended form the bus until the 3rd violation. I would take that angle with the principal and/or school board; why are they skipping straight to suspension of riding privileges?
Funny side story, I had 2 kinds of bus route in my illustrious 4 year career: rent-controlled apartment kids, and wealthy suburbanite kids. They're equally horrible in their own ways. I'm no longer a bus driver, but I will always feel the USMC prepared me for 2 things: combat and that school bus job.
Me: If you don't stop cussing, you're getting off the bus right here.
Rich brat: My Dad's a lawyer! He'll sue you!
Me: A lawyer? Good, he can explain exactly what your rights are while he's driving you to school next week.
This seems to be the universal bus policy for just about every district in the nation. With exceptions for fighting, etc...you would normally expect not to be suspended form the bus until the 3rd violation. I would take that angle with the principal and/or school board; why are they skipping straight to suspension of riding privileges?
Funny side story, I had 2 kinds of bus route in my illustrious 4 year career: rent-controlled apartment kids, and wealthy suburbanite kids. They're equally horrible in their own ways.
I'm no longer a bus driver, but I will always feel the USMC prepared me for 2 things: combat and that school bus job.Me: If you don't stop cussing, you're getting off the bus right here.
Rich brat: My Dad's a lawyer! He'll sue you!
Me: A lawyer? Good, he can explain exactly what your rights are while he's driving you to school next week.
bogie
Member
Would it be okay to talk about a tattoo gun? Or a piercing gun?
bogie
Member
doh...
tulsamal
Member
That really is far too broad. I live outside of Vinita in Craig County, OK. There are 15,000 people in the whole county. My children go to Vinita schools. They have had wonderful and concerned teachers every single year. Some of them are treated as part of our extended family to this day. Not all public schools are crazy and out of control places. If the incident you report happened in the Vinita public schools, it would be page one news in the paper the next day. It would probably be the top story for a week or more actually!
I taught at OU in Norman. I taught at Rogers State College in Claremore for several years. First as an adjunct and then an assistant professor. I decided I wanted to try teaching middle or high school in the Vinita area. I've got a BA and MA. I'm OK teaching certified. But I haven't been able to get hired yet. I was told that the best thing was to start teaching as a substitute. Then they would get to know me in the classroom and it would be more likely they would hire me when an opening came up. So I've done it a few times. Problem is that I can make far more money for far less work as a part-time security guard! If I work the full seven hour shift at the high school, I will get paid $55 before taxes. So my check for a full day of riding herd on all those kids was $50. Yeah, I'm getting rich doing this!!!!
Gregg
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