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My Stainless ROA Came Today

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by wmgeorge, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:14 PM.

  1. wmgeorge
    • Contributing Member

    wmgeorge Contributing Member

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    A lucky find on Gun Broker with a Buy it Now. New never fired in the OEM plastic box with lock, and nilpple wrench. Got it dusted off, cleaned up and oiled. Will be next week before I get to try it out.

    What I would really like to find, is a conversion cylinder in either 45 ACP or maybe 45 LC.
     
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  2. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Congrats

    I haven't been bitten by the conversion cylinder bug.
    I like loading and shooting cap&ball. 20170301_172455.jpg
     
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  3. RPRNY

    RPRNY Member

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    Sadly, I do not yet own an ROA, the acme of the cap and ball revolver. Mine are 1858s and Rogers & Spencers. I have an R&D Conversion cylinder (45 LC) in one of my R&S, with an Uberti dovetail front sight. It is the most accurate pistol I own and with 26 grs BP and 200 grs RNFP I can produce regular 5 shot touching, or near as dammit, groups at 7 yards that will stay quite tight to 12 yards. Full house 250 grs wadcutters over 35 grs (870 fps) open up a bit but remain at least as tight as my favorite 1911 and better than any other pistol. 45 LC full BP loads are quite effective.
     
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  4. wmgeorge
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    wmgeorge Contributing Member

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    I can shoot ACP for 1/2 the price of LC. I owned a 45LC revolver at one time, a beautiful Uberti. But you need to reload for that caliber otherwise you or at least I could not afford to shoot! Do not want to get back into reloading now. I am set up for .reloading 223 for my AR15 and have not done that for a long time.
     
  5. RPRNY

    RPRNY Member

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    Confused. Are you after a 45 acp conversion cylinder for your ROA? I have never heard of such a creature. I imagine the ROA can handle the extra 7,000 psi...however, that's quite a large gap for the bullet to jump from case mouth to forcing cone and you'd still have to reload because the ROA wants lead bullets sized at least .452" . I can't see being interested in shooting a cap and ball revolver but perturbed by loading for 45 lc? You'll have powder. You can get a Lee handloader and not need a press. 200 grs RNFP SPG lubed bullets are for nothing. I'm at a loss...
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017 at 12:07 AM
  6. Cooldill

    Cooldill Member

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    I believe that's called a Blackhawk. ;)

    Seriously, why get a ROA if you're going to go the easy route and throw a conversion cylinder in it? o_O
     
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  7. sltm1

    sltm1 Member

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    RPRNY...don't fret over not having a ROA, the R&S is primarily where they copied tried and true improvements that make the ROA the dependable cap and ball revolver it is.
     
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  8. RPRNY

    RPRNY Member

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    Rogers & Spencers are indeed near perfect. The awkward hammer height, admittedly ideal for fanning, is suboptimal otherwise. And Ruger's use of coil springs are far better. The R&S hammer spring is straight from the forges in the lowest level of Hell.
     
  9. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Well, the conversion for a ROA is an easy one really. It's just the natural progression of the black powder era. Just like my Dragoons, my Army, Remies . . . . . I personally like the arrangement of the conversions the most. Old world beauty/elegance meets modern "no muss, no fuss" . . . . . .
    I really feel like it's the best situation for me

    Likewise, a converted ROA is a natural. The best cap gun ever produced can indeed be "converted" into a top performing cartridge gun!

    The whole idea about the "expense" of the conversion cylinder, that some like to use as the excuse for not getting "into" the conversions, is silly! Unless you buy used, you'll spend more money buying a complete cartridge gun than the conversion for your cap gun. BTW, used conversion cyls/ gated conversions can be had too, I have no problem with saving that way . . . . . it goes both ways .

    As far as .45acp being used in a revolver cyl. chambered to fire it, the "free bore" is just like any other revolver made to shoot a rimless cart. My El Patron shoots .45acp as well (if not slightly better) as the .45C it originally came with. The ROA should be no different. If one has a ROA with conversion cyls, they have the best set up you could ever have as far as strength/durability/action parts. The strongest cap gun ever made is easily the best platform for whatever cylinder would be made for it. 45acp is a walk in the park . . . . . . .

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017 at 3:46 AM
  10. sltm1

    sltm1 Member

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    Mike, do you need to use a special retaining clip on the acp's?
     
  11. wmgeorge
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    wmgeorge Contributing Member

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    Ditto 45 Dragoon, If I had to only own one gun in future years it will be my ROA with the conversion cylinder installed and 45 ACP for home defense, and yes they make them. This is not my first Rodeo, I have done my research. Been shooting and reloading for most of what I owned all my life and I will be 74 in July. But standard 45 ACP lead round nose or semi wad cutter work just fine. Your not going to win any long distance target shooting contest but at 30 feet or so.....
     
  12. wmgeorge
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    wmgeorge Contributing Member

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    I'm not Mike :) but the ones I have been looking at do not. The ACP round chambers on the case and the cylinders look like that also.
     
  13. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Sltm1
    No. The .45acp cylinder is chambered for the round to headspace on the front of the case (just as in an auto/semi-auto) so no need for clips.

    wmgeorge,
    I agree. If I could have only one revolver, it'd be a ROA with all the "other" cylinders I could get for it!!

    Mike
     
  14. RPRNY

    RPRNY Member

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    So, leaving aside that the 45 acp operates at 7,000 psi higher than the SAAMI MAP for 45 LC, itself some degree higher than MAP for cap and ball loads, and accepting your view that the not insubstantial increase in freebore between 45 LC and 45 acp will have no particular impact on accuracy, are you endorsing the OP's plan to shoot factory 230 grs, .451" hardball into the ROA forcing cone from this as yet unidentified conversion cylinder?

    But wait, it appears the OP is now talking about lead 45 acp ammo. So while still undersized, it at least will not be copper jacjeted ball he's shooting. Interestingly, I cannot find loaded lead 45acp ammo at any noticeably lower price than comparable 45 LC ammo. So the enormous cost savings isn't in it, it's just a preference for 45 ACP? Well, that's fine too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017 at 11:27 AM
  15. wmgeorge
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    wmgeorge Contributing Member

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    PS I am not planning on shooting FMJ 45 ACP. I did say round nose and semi wadcutter. The cylinders are made from 4150 chrome alloy steel. In the case of the stainless, its not stainless but plated 4150.
     
  16. wmgeorge
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    wmgeorge Contributing Member

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    I think your comparing 45 LC lead .66 each vs .45 ACP .43 cents each for lead semi wad cutter or round nose. Its not 1/2 the cost, you are right. I was talking about lead ammo from my first post.
    FYI http://www.kirstkonverter.com/
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017 at 12:12 PM
  17. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    RPRNY,
    The cylinder is what must contain the pressure of the particular round. The ROA platform is actually stronger than the Blkhwk frame it was taken from (what I gather from my own measurements). So, it's plenty strong enough to support the cylinder of choice. The Blkhwk barrel used in the ROA should be sufficient for .45 cal rounds since Ruger offers .45C / .45 acp convertibles.
    For the same reason, the bp versions we shoot today are plenty strong a support system for modern day smokless conversion cyls. Because of the popularity of conversion cyls, I'm pretty sure that's why the change to faster rifling twist in the Uberti open tops. I know I'm glad they did !!!

    Mike
     
  18. wmgeorge
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    wmgeorge Contributing Member

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    Thanks for posting Mike. Howell also makes the same conversion cylinder in 45 ACP and its $125 cheaper than the Kirst . Maybe the Kirst is better made but Howell is almost within driving distance from me and the owner is a tool and die maker.
     
  19. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    So who makes a 45 ACP conversion cylinder for the ROA?
     
  20. wmgeorge
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    wmgeorge Contributing Member

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    Howell on their website and also Kirst, same on their website.
     
  21. drobs

    drobs Member

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    I like having conversion cylinders for my BP revolvers but find that shooting C&B ball is more enjoyable to me.
    Currently I have 2 conversion cylinders both in 45 Colt. A R&D for 1 of my 1860's and a Kirst for my 1858.

    I'd like add another Kirst for my 1860 and cut a loading gate.

    Hind sight being 20/20 R&D / Howel non-gate conversions make the most sense for 1858 / ROA as they can be quickly removed from the gun. I'm doing things backwards but bought my Kirst 15 to 17 years ago.

    The Pietta 1860 Army I bought used off of Gunbroker came with the R&D 45 Colt Cylinder instead of it's original cylinder. It shipped straight to my door. I quickly bought a replacement BP cylinder off of Cabela's as BP is more fun for me right now.

    wmgeorge, I'd recommend you try your ROA with Cap & Ball on the range before buying a Conversion cylinder. I find BP is lots of fun. To me it's like combining 4th of July Fireworks with shooting. Just an all around good time.

    Lets see some pictures of your new gun.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017 at 11:52 PM
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  22. wmgeorge
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    wmgeorge Contributing Member

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    I've shot BP on and off for years. This is the first ROA I have owned and I have a Uberti 1858 also. I just wanted an alternative to BP and 45 ACP I am familiar with having owned and reloaded for many 1911 series guns.

    So 45 ACP is my choice, just wondering if the extra cost for the Kirst gets me any more features?
     
  23. drobs

    drobs Member

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    Kirst offers you the ability to cut the back plate and recoil shield to have a loading gate. I'd go with Howel, if I were you. Gives you 1 more shot too.
     
  24. wmgeorge
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    wmgeorge Contributing Member

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    Krist has changed, they are now 6 shots and you can purchase with or without the loading gate. Howell did at one time held the patent for the design of their 6 shot cylinder. Thanks for posting.
     
  25. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Well actually, the conversions for ROAs have always been 6 shots. It's the Remington conversions that are all 5 shots because of Pat. infringement. Taylor's owns that. They are the only sellers of a 6 shot conv. cyl for Remies.
    The Kirst for the ROA is a drop cylinder only and can't use a gated version. It's good for 1,000 fps. On that basis I'd choose Kirst .

    Mike
     

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