Myth Busting “Real World” 22LR 50 Yard Challenge

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by LiveLife, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    With my factory 10/22 Collector #3 and factory T/CR22, I am capable of producing 1" groups or better at 50 yards with certain ammunition. (10/22 trigger "broke in" from gritty 7.5 lbs to smoother 4.7-4.8 lbs and T/CR22 trigger went from over 6 lbs to smoother 4.5 lbs ... Which I think contributes heavily to smaller group size vs new/unbroken in trigger)

    Just prior to my cataract surgery this week, I wanted to see what I could do with "dirty" barrels with 3000 rounds shot through 10/22 and 1000 rounds shot through T/CR22 without cleaning the bore (before I cleaned them to do another "myth busting" dirty vs clean 22LR barrel thread ... I will probably capture "dirty" groups with other brand/weight bullets for reference).

    These are T/CR22 test groups shot with Aguila 40 gr CPRN (Aguila Prime) at 50 yards while zeroing the Bushnell 6-18x50mm scope (It was very windy day that kept knocking over my target cardboard and I am blaming the left hole of bottom group to wind :D) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/thompson-center-t-cr22-real-world-25-50-yard-22lr-ammo-comparison-break-in.864241/#post-12075377

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    These are 10/22 test groups shot with Aguila 40 gr CPRN (Aguila Prime) at 50 yards while fussing with scope and mount moved from T/CR22 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/real-world-plinking-25-yard-22lr-ammo-comparison-with-hot-barrel-ruger-10-22-collector-3-break-in.859106/page-3#post-12075744

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    And this was my "practice" shooting for the challenge with T/CR22 before the cataract surgery. Hope I do better after eye surgery recovery, especially with KSA 16.5" bull barrel and Burris 6.5-20x50mm scope (Don't ask me what happened with the 1" circle ... I have no idea what happened :p).

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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
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  2. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Well I cheated a bit, mostly because in my rush yesterday morning to pack my gear heading for the hunting property I did not reread the rules when I printed off the targets. And I had to sight my rifle in as last weekend's project was a fully disassembly and cleaning. None the less I did attempt the challenge twice after getting my 10/22 sighted in again. Here is what I did and yes it is not strictly following the rules. First I put about 90 rds through the gun seasoning the clean barrel, getting the scope re-zeroed, and testing the newly free floated forearm. After that I went down range put up one new target and two of the THR challenge targets. I loaded the 10rd magazine with 10rds and fired two at the target and then moved down to the challenge target and fired eight rounds at the spots. As you can see below I missed the .5 and .25 spots on my first attempt. I repeated the same process on the second challenge targets and succeeded; though admittedly not strictly by the rules.

    Fx3RjOll.jpg
    First Attempt
    zJzuC5pl.jpg
    Second Attempt
     
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  3. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Thank you for the honesty.

    But this challenge is different from other shooting matches/challenges previously ran on THR where only the smallest groups are submitted rather this challenge is "real world" and "myth busting" where actual shots from cold barrel are submitted to confirm or bust what the actual cold barrel accuracy of particular firearm/barrel/trigger/ammunition/shooting condition/shooter combination can produce on demand as we all have seen the smallest 1/2" 5 shot groups obtained under ideal/optimal conditions posted all over the internet.

    This challenge is actually for the shooter to confirm or bust to oneself whether their rifle/ammunition can "prove" accuracy on demand, not the smallest group size after shooting multiple groups and picking out the smallest one.

    This is why I am running the challenge.

    During my 26,000+ round testing, especially with capturing 10 shot groups over 3000 round count for 10/22 and 1000 for T/CR22, I have produced many 1/2" 5 shot groups at 50 yards. But because of my promise to jmorris and Bart B. in using 10+ shot groups to better "gauge" true accuracy, I continued shooting to 10 shots where final group size opened up from 5 shot group.

    This demonstrated to me over and over that smaller 5 shot groups are simply subset of larger 10 shot groups. ;) I have captured and posted enough multiple 10 shot groups on the same copy paper targets using different ammunition to illustrate this with full transparency. Now, if multiple 5 shot groups are posted on the same target (Say around 8 to 10+) with same 1/2" groups, yes I would consider that true accuracy but not when a single 5 shot group was cut out and posted with claim of "average" accuracy.

    And it is also reasons why I maintained "factory stock" condition of 10/22 and T/CR22 without trigger polish job, parts replacement or cleaning of bore to better demonstrate what an average factory 10/22 and T/CR22 are capable of that are well documented in two "real world" break-in threads.

    So I urge those interested to challenge yourself and your rifle/ammunition to see what it will actually do. This is like "real world" street racing where you race your car "as is" without any special "race prep" and doing 0-60 mph or 1/4 mile run to see what the Elapsed Time measured is ... To me, that's the "real world" actual "myth busting" street performance of your car ... Not after replacing tires and prepping/tweaking the engine just for the track.
     
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  4. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Unfortunately even if I had re-read the rules yesterday morning I could not have followed them this time. The gun had been completely torn down, cleaned, stock modified, and reassemble the previous weekend. I had no zero and I had a squeaky clean and well oiled barrel. No way to play by the rules this time. Maybe next time.

    I agree a 5 shot group is only a subset of a 10 shot group, but a 10 shot group is only a subset of a 20 shot group, etc. ;) If the gun is well behaved then from the mean radius of the group and the standard deviation of the group you can statistically predict the size of a Y shot group from a smaller X shot group or vs versa assuming that smaller group is not so small as to be statistically insignificant (I also admit 5 shots if right on the bottom edge of statically significant). That is assuming the gun and groups are well behave in their distribution around the point of aim/impact.

    My gun is with the ammo used yesterday a 1 MOA gun. I shot ten 5-shot groups, consecutively, varying only the way the gun was supported as part of a test and I average .97 MOA with the smallest being .57 MOA and the largest being 1.4 MOA. Given that the result of my two attempts at the challenge target are about right...

    I have always found 5-shot groups better despite the greater statistical significant of ten shot groups. You have to balance the shooters focus against the statically data and in some cases with lighter center fire rifles how fast the barrel gets hot. I would rather shoot ten 5-shot group than five 10-shot groups although in theory there should be no difference between the two data sets.

    Wouldn't a real world cold bore test be a single .25 diameter dot with one shot fired?

    -ramblin'
     
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