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Myth Busting - "Real World" Factory Stock Dirty vs Clean 22LR barrel accuracy

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by LiveLife, Nov 19, 2021.

  1. sparkyv

    sparkyv Member

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    Nice body of work as usual, LiveLife. I will try this on my CZ455 Trainer:
     
  2. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    And I will also try on the KSA bull barrel.
     
  3. Mk-211

    Mk-211 Member

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    Nice test, if you do plan to do upgrades, be sure to keep the results to show improvements. That would include a new barrel, trigger, stock....

    Then after all of that, shoot for overall accuracy of the completed modified rifle VS stock rifle. This could help others decide how far they want to go and how much money they want to spend to get there.

    Keep the thread going, it's definitely a great start and will get better as you get towards the end. It's always good to watch these threads and to see how things turn out. So far you're doing a great job showing what you're doing and how little changes affect the accuracy.

    I don't want to throw a bunch of questions at you about using different ammo, bench rest... if other people want that, have them send you the ammo they want to see tested!!! That's how they can help you keep testing and posting to the thread right?!

    Anyway, great job so far!
     
  4. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Thank you.

    And yes, I will definitely continue documenting incremental changes vs group size in the 10/22 and T/CR22 "real world" threads and in the upcoming "Accurizing 22LR on the cheap" thread to benefit members having to spend a lot of money on ammunition.

    My 22LR testing is now going on 4th year with over 28,000 rounds fired of various brand/weight ammunition. I am just glad that I stocked up on 22LR when it was $16-$20/500 shipped as it is allowing me to shoot while I conserve my centerfire reloading components waiting for primers to return.
     
  5. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    10/22 Range Report #2 (150 round count since barrel cleaning):

    Had a break in the rain and was sunny today so I hopped over to my shooting area for another range session.

    NOTE: Although it was sunny, shooting area gets shaded in the afternoon and quickly dipped down to 50F and I was dressed light and started experiencing freezing cold hand and ended the shooting session early.

    [​IMG]
    • Shot two rows of 3 groups with Aguila prime followed by Eley prime 40 gr CPRN
    [​IMG]
    • After shooting two rows of Federal AutoMatch, Field Pac, and Thunderbolt groups, shot verification group with Aguila (Aguila prime) 40 gr CPRN.
    [​IMG]
    • By the time these groups were shot, I was quite chilled but I did managed to find a brick of Armscor 36 gr CPHP so I added to the test.
    Summary - 350 rounds were shot since 10/22 barrel was cleaned and while I have seen some group size trending smaller, not sure if that may be part of group size spread for those particular ammunition. The shaded 50F shooting area being cold did have an affect on my shooting to the point where I had to end the shooting session early.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  6. I6turbo

    I6turbo Member

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    Something else you might consider is the Brimstone trigger job.
    https://brimstonegunsmithing.com/tier-2-intermediate-10-22-trigger-work/

    I have my old 1966 model 10/22 that I've had since I was 14 or so (got it used), and decided to send the trigger to Brimstone for their Tier 2 "sweet spot" job. I usually do all my own gunsmithing myself, but I decided to go this route on the 10/22 trigger. I am VERY happy with it. It came back at 2.0 pounds pull and has a perfectly clean break. Plenty good for an otherwise stock 10/22, plenty safe for shooters who aren't expecting a super-light trigger, and a pleasure to shoot even for someone who appreciates a good trigger.

    I HATE, HATE a bad trigger. I pretty much will not shoot a gun with a bad trigger. I'll either fix it, leave it in the safe, or sell it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  7. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    Hmm non match bulk quality ammo that is already very inconsistent, non match barrels with unknown amounts of wear, and semi auto actions with potentially inconsistent lockup.
     
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  8. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I know, I know ... :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    Those factors went through my head as I was shooting yesterday in the 50F cold lightly dressed especially with cold numbing fingers that accentuated shooter induced trigger pull/push flyers ... By now, cleaned barrels should be well "seasoned" ... Right? :p

    But at the very least, we are seeing "real world" imperfect groups from factory barrels and triggers that whip and snap with triggers that are less than ideal to give us some baseline measurements for "accurizing" efforts like barrel/trigger replacement. (BTW, I did update the thread title with "Real World Factory Stock" to note the obvious.:D

    And due to the "real world" theme of these "factory stock" threads (Not to mention the sky rocketed cost of 22LR "match" ammunition like SK/Eley/Wolf), I will continue with "commercial bulk" ammunition I have on hand. I am hoping for some degree of improvement with KSA bull barrel but who knows what will actually happen using "commercial bulk" ammo ... ;)
     
  9. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Thanks for the link.

    I had thought about doing a trigger job for the upcoming "Accurizing 22LR on the cheap" thread (My bullseye match shooting mentor taught me to do 2.5 lb trigger job on my match 1911 and have done Burwell trigger job on my M&Ps that turned out well) but leaning more towards trigger replacement so I can do side-by-side comparison testing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  10. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I have been looking over the dirty/clean groups and reading on factory stock 10/22 accuracy to realize that 1" groups are pretty good - https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/accuracy-from-factory-10-22-carbine.26017/

    While I understand the component of shooter input, especially with factory triggers, I was hoping to see difference even with the same shooter trigger pull/push factored in to both dirty/clean groups.

    I am thinking about cleaning the barrel again and/or doing another range test but this time warmly dressed to address the frozen shooting hand issue I had on the last range trip. Also, I am installing KSA 16.5" bull barrel on the T/CR22 so if shooter induced trigger pull/push flyers persist, it may be evident in bull barrel groups.
     
  11. Fite Man

    Fite Man Member

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    As a long time lurker I always enjoy reading your posts LiveLife. Excellent work and a very interesting topic!

    Now I must resist cleaning my .22 barrels....
     
    LiveLife likes this.
  12. Hal

    Hal Member

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    One thing I picked up from Rimfire Central years ago was how inconsistent bulk .22 ammo can be.
    A lot of posters back then would separate their ammunition by weight.

    It seemed to make a huge difference.
     
  13. Mousegun

    Mousegun Member

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    Great job of doing and splanin' what you did.
    After looking at the groups shown, I can conclude that under windless conditions, my Daystate Red Wolf in 177 shoots tighter groups at 50 yards than most (but not all) of the 22 results you got. Add a little wind and all bets are off.
    After 50 yards, things change dramatically and the groups open up a lot. One has to up the air gun caliber to go much beyond 50 yards with consistent accuracy.
    The clean vs. dirty debate rages on in the air gun world also.
     
  14. PapaG

    PapaG Member

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    My experience has shown me that every gun has its quirks. I've never had one that immediately shot better after cleaning. My Savage-Anschutz needed ten to fifteen rounds to settle down after cleaning. I learned sixty years ago that the best way to screw up a 22 was to go at cleaning with an aluminum rod, a bronze brush and enthusiasm from the muzzle.
    Lots of good info from Merrill Martin in the old magazine Precision Shooting which I wish I'd had in the fifties.
    My CZ 455 has not been cleaned since initial lapping.
    I'm trying to freshen an original Win 52 which didn't have much love but has a good bore and crown. Built up 10-22 with Jard trigger, Shaw Bentz barrel is great.
    Bulk ammo is a waste of time for my money testing for accuracy.
    I used to take any new 22 rifle up to the club and shoot at least three groups with about ten different kinds of ammo. I learned not to take the hyper velocity, the Wildcars, the Thunderbolts, and Golden bullets. Never had a gun that didn't show promise with old Eley Club.
    My old 37 Rem with Lyman 20X would shoot possibles in small bore league with Clubs. I was poor so couldn't afford Tenex. Still don't shoot it much.
    Weighing and segregating ammo by tenths of a grain and by rim thickness can help but in most cases is a waste of time if you don't have a match barrel.
    Contender 22 barrels, from 10" to 21" have proven to me that cost isn't everything.
    You are doing good stuff. Keep it coming. I'm on hold til I get my cataracts and afib fixed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2022
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