Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

MYTH of Chrome lined bores busted

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by dstorm1911, Sep 25, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,143
    Location:
    Tucson, Az most of the time
    I'm really tired so am just going to copy/paste from the thread about this I setup on Surplus rifles

    O/K Folks what ya are about to see isn't pretty so maybe ya should leave the room and have your 5 year old describe the pictures to ya to reduce your exposure........

    A lil back ground, what ya are about to see is a brand new Romanian G kit barrel....... yes Chrome lined bore etc... this barrel came out of a customers AK which I built 6 months ago, it was a pristine unissued kit built on an NDS-1 reciever well he got busted by the Pima county Sheriffs dept the very first time he took it out shooting...... a grand total of 5 Boxes of Wolf black box fired through it and it was confiscated he was cited for discharging a firearm within 1/4 mile of a road etc... well...... it was his own private road but thats neither here nor there it took him 4 months to get his brand new rifle back and to clear his name, it has sat in a plastic evidence bag for 4 months, was never cleaned as obviously the cops got no reason to clean your gun......... here is the barrel, the gas piston the slant break (which I had to heat with a torch and twist off with a pipe wrench) and next to it is the "fix" a brand new hammer forged NON- CHROME LINED Yugo barrel......

    Ya know it aggravates the hell outa me when someone who has owned an AK for a week or two will try to argue with me about chrome lined bores versus non-chrome lined bores or corrosive ammo versus NON-corrosive ammo when I've not been doin this for a week not a year not even 5 years I have been dealing with nothing but military weapons and ammo for 34 years! When I tell ya that chrome lining has NOTHING to do with corrosion prevention and everything to do with allowing a full auto machine gun barrel to last longer by generating less heat via friction then ya know what........ I'm not saying it cause I love typeing so much or because I listen to the marketing BS dealers will try to push onto consumers I'm saying it cause I've been dealin with these things my entire life.......

    A chrome lined barrel means absolutally nothing in a semi auto rifle, it doesn't mean your safe if ya don't clean your rifle it dorsn't mean your protected from corrosive ammo etc... it means that if ya can make your AK fire 600 rounds in one minute the chances are the bore will hold up better than a non chrome lined bore due to less friction....... thats it....

    As I've told people a thousand times at least DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN ON THE AMMO BOX!!! The Europeans really could care less about what primers they use in your cheap ammo, they are going to use whatever primers they get the best deal on........ the box will ALWAYS say NON CORROSIVE and if ya trust that then look at the pics above cause thats what your destined to end up with...... if it is a MILITARY CALIBER ya need to clean as if for corrosive regardless what ammo ya put in it.......


    Excuse Typos etc.. please I'm barely keepin my eyes open right now

    the parent thread can be found here, there are some more pics in it, as well as a reply to someone who thought maybe the cops tampred with this one gun outa a few hundred in their evidence room simply to make it rust etc... please excuse if the writing seems irritated........ I am....... its been onea them days ya just wish ya'd stayed in bed ;)

    http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=40691
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,728
    Interesting post, but I am not sure any myths got busted here. First off, chrome-plating makes a barrel corrosion resistant, not corrosion-proof. I doubt you'll find many people who would claim that a chrome-lined barrel will never rust. Second, the outside of the barrel ain't chromed. It's entirely possible for rust to start on the outside and work its way inside under the chrome (as it appears in the pics above). I saw the exact same thing beginning to happen on one of my Saigas before I wiped the rust off the crown. Third, is the inside of the gas tube or the breechface chromed on that gun? Fourth, if chrome lined bores are just for machine-guns and has nothing with corrosion resistance, than why do manufactures bother to do it for semi-auto rifles (SKS) and pistols (CZ-82, Arcus, etc)?
     
  3. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,143
    Location:
    Tucson, Az most of the time
    exactly, the point is for all of those who will tell ya that if the barrel is chrome lined ya do not need to worry about corrosive primed ammo or cleaning for it etc... yes ya do need to clean for it and yes ya can still get corrosion etc...
     
  4. trueblue1776

    trueblue1776 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,050
    Location:
    Alabama
  5. LeibstandarteAdH

    LeibstandarteAdH Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    535
    Location:
    South Carolina (Midlands)
    These are serious questions, im not trying to push that chrome lined bores are better or more reliable ect... because i have no detailed personal experience with this exact subject. But,

    why did armalite/ the u.s. DOD make such a big deal out of chromeing the bores in Viet-Nam era M16's after the big reliability issues, and that by doing so they were "improving relibility" via souposedly making extraction easier and the like?

    Also why would/did the japs chrome their 7.7 Arisaka barells? What would be the point in chrome lining a bolt action 7.7mm Arisaka rifle barell when all it would do is make the gun less accurate?
     
  6. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,728
    I think the point is that anyone who makes extreme statements tends to be wrong. The fact that a chrome-lined bore will still rust doesn't mean it isn't more rust resistant. The fact that you have a chromed barrel that rusted after months of neglect in a plastic bag doesn't disprove that. The argument that "people claim that a chromed barrel will never rust" is a strawman. Again, lots of manufacturers go to the effort of chrome-lining bores when they don't have to. Machine gun only? I've got cheap shotguns with chromed bores.
     
  7. gb0399

    gb0399 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    TN
    who doesn't clean their guns anyway?
     
  8. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,143
    Location:
    Tucson, Az most of the time
    Shear stress, what the "MYTH" is and if ya deal with AKs and building and selling AKs everyday ya will hear it constantly, Some people believe that you do not have to worry about cleaning a chrome lined barrel after shooting corrosive ammo......

    So far you are saying the EXACT same thing I am saying so I guess that means you are wrong then right? Read my post very slowly then you might want to visit the link ya will discover you are and I are talking about the same thing partner...

    here it is all by itself

    CLEAN YOUR GUN REGARDLESS OF IF ITS CHROME LINED OR NOT.... IT CAN STILL RUST

    easier for ya?
     
  9. springmom

    springmom Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,599
    Location:
    Spring TX
    People whose guns get confiscated for four months?????

    But yes. Clean your rifles. Every time.

    Springmom
     
  10. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    9,563
    Location:
    Forestburg, Texas
    You know, I have never heard that a chrome-lined barrel would not corrode or that it was safe from corrosive ammo.
     
  11. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,728
    Nope. I'm referring to this statement in your original post.

    As I say above, that ain't it. It doesn't doesn't mean nothing.
     
  12. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,143
    Location:
    Tucson, Az most of the time
    Shear stress........... that statement is sayin exactly what you are sayin...... ya will still get rust, the only thing chrome will do for sure is allow for less friction under full auto fire it does not make ya immune to corrosion etc.... now go re-read your own statements about the gas block etc... please I am too d@mned tired to try explainin it 30 times
     
  13. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,728
    Yes, and I'm too damned tired to explain the difference between something that's "X-proof" versus "X-resistant". *No one* is arguing that chrome makes a bore corrosion proof. That's the strawman part of your argument. If a chrome-lined bore has rusted, that doesn't mean it wasn't corrosion resistant. Sheesh.

    My statement about the gas block was actually a question. I asked if it was chromed.

    Again, if "chrome lining has NOTHING to do with corrosion prevention and everything to do with allowing a full auto machine gun barrel to last longer by generating less heat via friction" than why do so many semi-automatic guns (including my Chinese SKS and Russian shotgun) have chrome lined bores?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2007
  14. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    4,368
    Location:
    TEXAS!
    Considering while diving in the ocean I find my stainless steel knives rust if I don't clean them with freash water that very day, I have no doubt corossive ammo will eat out a chrome bore!

    I have a bunch of Yugoslavian AK ammo. I've researched, ALL Yugoslavian ammo IS corrosive. So next rifle class I take, that's the ammo I take. I'll shoot up every round I have, and use Windex right there to keep the bore going till night. And that night take my AK to pieces and clean with soap-n-water (including the gas system!)

    As I said, no doubt it will ruin even a chrome bore!
     
  15. lencac

    lencac Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,068
    Wow this is quite a thread Storm. Need I mention the original M16s and the jamming problems they had. Part of the fix was proper maintenance and the other part of the fix was using chrome lined barrels as specified by the original engineers. Anyway, no matter what you shoot if you are not cleaning the firearm after shooting then perhaps you should find a different hobby (of course green teef, tabacco spittin, redneck hillbillie hunters excluded). But then again if your shootin an SKS or AK thing ....... then who cares :neener:
     
  16. GunTech

    GunTech Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,878
    Location:
    Helena MT
    Sorry, a chromed bore cannot rust, hard chrome doesn't oxidize. It can corrode in the presence of chemicals, but it doesn't rust. It doesn't spontaniously corrode in the presence of oxygen even in the presence of water vapour.
     
  17. Gator

    Gator Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Messages:
    2,231
    Location:
    Stuck in Crook Co., IL
    A chrome lined bore will have a longer service life than a non chromed one. That is the only justification I have ever heard for them; and it's a good one. For example, a 30,000 round life expectancy for a steel M14 barrel, and 50,000 rounds for a chromed one. I have never heard that chrome lining prevents rust/corrosion.
     
  18. lencac

    lencac Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,068
    Rust, corrosion, now we're just playin semantics. How bout if it subject to electrolisis :neener:
     
  19. Alaskapopo

    Alaskapopo member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Alaska
    Chrome does help reduce/prevent corrosion and rust. Its also a lot easier to clean.
    pat
     
  20. GunTech

    GunTech Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,878
    Location:
    Helena MT
    The rational for the military adopting chrome bores in WWII was protection from corrosion in jungle environments, the same problem that popped up in early M16s in Vietnam. Recall that the army specified chrome bores for M16s, but McNamara's whiz kids saw this foot dragging, and veto'd the change.

    Once chrome bores were added to M16s, a lot of the jamming - a result of chamber corrosion, ended.

    See Ezell's "The Black rifle" amongst many, many other references.
     
  21. lencac

    lencac Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,068
    Hey Gator, where about in Crook Co.? I was born and raised in Oak Park
     
  22. Whitman31

    Whitman31 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    413
    Location:
    Minnesota
    +1 on the easier to clean, no comment on corrosion...
     
  23. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    6,986
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
    I would also say this might have a bit to do with the problem as well. The wolf garbage is great for making noise and getting your barrel hot, but don't even believe their labeling when it says non-corrosive- always assume wolf is corrosive.
     
  24. U.S.SFC_RET

    U.S.SFC_RET Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,740
    Location:
    The Old Dominion State
    I believe that chrome lined barrels was to extend the life of the barrel through the sheer amount of rounds expended through the barrel. The trade off was accuracy. Everyone knows that chrome doesn't rust but Like the original poster says it's not rust proof. You are looking at extreme heat and pressure plus the salts from the commie primers. All things being equal whenever you say European just remember that they are worlds apart within themselves as well British, German and then the former eastern bloc countries that spit out that AK ammunition whether it's surplus or made in former Russian ammunition factories.
    When tha Iron curtain went down and I was in Germany I could have taken you to areas 2 miles apart that were literally worlds apart and vastly different. East Germans then used corrosive ammunition and the West Germans did not.
     
  25. db_tanker

    db_tanker Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,760
    Location:
    Willis, TX
    Hey GunTech,

    if you want, I can invite you down here to the facility where I work at...Baker Hughes...I have personally seen mud-motors (they have chrome plated rotors inside the power section) with their rotors coming out looking like they were made of swiss cheese...there are all types of chemicals and environments out there that can destroy hard chrome. I am not trying to start a flame war, just trying to point out that chrome isn't as indestructable as everyone thinks...


    OF COURSE...I don't see myself throwing my CUR2 or anyone throwing their AK's down a bore-hole anytime soon... :D
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page