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Myth or Fact?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by cwmcgu2, Nov 9, 2007.

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  1. cwmcgu2

    cwmcgu2 Member

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    Heard a lil tidbit the other day and was wondering if it was true or just some fudd myth:
    -Don't clean your gun after zeroing it before hunting because a clean gun will be off zero till you get a few shots down the barrel.
    So... true or false? I am going deer hunting for the first time Saturday (my excited face=:D) and I havn't had the chance to clean my rifle since checking zero at the range last Saturday. Clean it tommorow or not?
     
  2. Frog48

    Frog48 Member

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    I'm 99.9% sure its just a myth.

    I've noticed no change in zero from simply cleaning my deer rifle. Its a Savage 110 in .30-06, if that matters.
     
  3. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    If there really is a change, I doubt it'd be enough to tell the difference at any range you'd be hunting.
     
  4. 1lostinspace

    1lostinspace member

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    myth

    what will very your point of impact is temp elevation cold bore not holding the same way lets say you 0 using prone position and now your shooting at a target standing. Just do your best
     
  5. cwmcgu2

    cwmcgu2 Member

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    K thanks guys.
     
  6. strambo

    strambo Member

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    Not a myth...but it depends. Both a clean and a cold bore can change point of impact from a cold fouled or warm and fouled bore. The difference is usually small and varies from rifle to rifle. Some rifles it doesn't change at all, others it can be a MOA off.

    For hunting it shouldn't matter. Also, your rifle and load may not have the inherent accuracy to notice a difference. If your rifle shoots 1 1/2" groups at 100yds and the POI shift on a clean cold bore is 1/2" or less, it won't necessarily show up.
     
  7. bang_bang

    bang_bang Member

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    When you're aiming at a circle the size of a quarter at 100 yards, maybe a clean gun will be a little off, or at least more noticeable. But when you're shooting at a deer, you'll have a larger kill zone. I hunted for 2 years with a factory bore sighted 7 mag and killed several deer, from 20-120 yards, with one shot. I'd say for the average hunter/plinker; it's a myth.
     
  8. dakotasin

    dakotasin Member

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    not a myth in most cases.

    clean your gun and go put a round or two down it and see if/how much change you have.

    most guns will change about 1-2 moa for the first shot from a clean, oily bore. some guns need 2 or 3 shots to settle down, some need 5 or 6. run your own test and see.

    personally, i never hunt a clean bore.
     
  9. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    Myth Rooted in Fact

    It was once a common practice to have your hunting gun "one shot dirty". That is,firing one shot after cleaning. This was to remove any excess oil from the bore. An oily bore has much less resistance to the bullet travel resulting in higher velocity and a wild or high first shot. Did it amount to much? I don't know but in the days of "make EVERY shot count" they didn't take chances. FWIW
     
  10. Selfdfenz

    Selfdfenz Member

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    I have two rifles for which it most certainly is not a myth. One of them is my main hunting rifle.

    All the others don't seem to be impacted or at least not enough to worry about.

    Best

    S-
     
  11. cwmcgu2

    cwmcgu2 Member

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    Ok, well I guess I leave the thing dirty for the weekend. I'll have to clean it afterwards so there's no reason to clean it right before anyway
     
  12. Twud

    Twud Member

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    I have always fired a fouler before going hunting because my deer rifle will shoot high from a wet bore. I've proven this at the range by cleaning it and shooting 2 rounds. The first will be high and the second will fall into a previously fired group. Idealy, I would shoot a fouler from a clean bore.
    I've also seen the same thing happen with my muzzle loader.
    In your situation you've got a dry dirty bore which is preferable to wet clean one.
     
  13. Medusa

    Medusa Member

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    Well, running a patch through just might help. I prefer to wipe the bore dry, so first shot goes through clean dry bore. Oil makes the bore slicker and burns.
     
  14. U.S.SFC_RET

    U.S.SFC_RET Member

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    Whenever I had to qualify in the Army I always shot 39 out of 40 because of the first shot always missed. It is a fact that a clean, scrubbed out bore will miss slightly off target. I really get the term Fouling Shot confused. But if you zero a round from the pipe so to say either do it from squeaky clean "which I don't trust" or foul it with a shot first.
     
  15. sacp81170a

    sacp81170a Member

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    Fouling shots are no myth. Bench rest competitors do it all the time and provisions are made for fouling shots in their matches. Neither is the fact that a shot from a cold bore will have a different POI than a shot from a warm bore. That said, when you're putting 10 shots in a group not much larger than the bore of your rifle (they even use target backers for each shot to confirm that a shot was indeed fired) at 300 yards, you're way beyond the accuraccy required to take game animals. There's "minute of angle" and there's "minute of deer". I'd make sure my zero was a "cold bore" zero, clean the rifle, and then fire one or two fouling shots. Should be plenty for hunting accuracy.
     
  16. Blackfork

    Blackfork Member

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    I shoot a lot of Highpower Rifle Competiton, Dist, Current Texas Highpower Rifle Champion, State NM Team, NRA High Master classification, et.

    The first shot out of a clean barrel is not going in the X ring. Unless there are sighting shots in a match, I would NEVER clean a barrel before taking a cold barrel important shot. At CMP week at the Camp Perry, I clean the bolt on my AR a couple of times, but never the barrel.

    There are lots of MOAs on a whitetail, but last year when I shot eight deer with seven different rifles, I didn't shoot any of them with a clean barrel. I checked the zero at the range and left it where it was on the last zeroed shot.

    There is no point in cleaning it- you are just going to clean it again when you put it up for the year. Zero it and leave it dirty. Believe me, it's not THAT dirty.

    Hunting tomorrow with a P17 and my .45 Les Baer.....both zeroed and uncleaned.
     
  17. db_tanker

    db_tanker Member

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    what blackfork said....


    its mostly for benchrest and competition shooters now I think.


    D
     
  18. yesit'sloaded

    yesit'sloaded Member

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    You can always zero your rifle for a CCB (clean cold bore) shot. Clean your barrel, shoot a round, wait at least ten minutes for cool down, clean again, shoot, repeat until rifle is zeroed from a clean cold bore.
     
  19. M1key

    M1key Member

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    Bought a slightly used Remington 700 in 308...first shot out of clean cold barrel was 8 inches high at 100 yards...subsequent 9 shots went into 1 inch group in the x-ring...tried different loads, dirty barrel, clean barrel, nothing changed...always shot high with first one.

    I could have zeroed for the first only, but what if i needed a follow-up shot?...decided I had a bent or bad barrel and returned it for refund.
     
  20. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    In the latest Rifle' magazine, a dude did this very test. he used 6 rifles, all of diff cals and styles, and test clean bbls, clean and dry bbls, dirty bbls, recent dirty bbls, and dirty bbls for a week or more.
    Long story short, quality and stiffness of bbl makes a diff. All rifles shot differently under all these different conditions. usually the first shot was high under all these conditions, but the group following would be pretty close, usually within 2 inches of first shot, and get closer with successive shots. one rifle, A ruger 7 mag, could not be predictable at all with the first shot, nor it's follow up groups. the best rifles, which put it's first shot closest to it's point of aim, under all the above conditions, and kept it's groups closest to those first shots, were in order, a Cooper heavy bbl in 243, Savage predator Series in 223, and believe it or not , a winnie 94 in 30.30.
     
  21. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    but another moral of the story was this, if you fired from a clean dry bbl, and between each shot, fired from a clean dry bbl, and I mean dry patched out, shots stayed closest to each other from the first shot, to subsequent groups. then when cleaned and scrubbed good, and dried good, and left to rest a bit, that next first cold bbl cleaned and dried shot, was right where it was the first time around, and also closest to point of aim.
     
  22. goon

    goon Member

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    I've heard the same thing but I can't actually tell you for sure.
    My solution is to just let the bore dirty for those two weeks. We're using noncorrosive ammo so you don't really need to worry about corrosion in that short of a time unless you get drenched with rain or drop it in the snow or something (in which case you should definitely clean it thoroughly).
     
  23. Fumbler

    Fumbler Member

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    It is no myth.

    My first shot out of a clean bore (Tikka T3 308) is usually high by 1-3 inch.
    I shoot a lot for fun and clean almost every range session, but I don't clean after the range session before hunting season.
    If you shoot your gun enough and clean it exactly the same every time then you'll figure out where it'll hit in a clean bore.

    For most hunting it won't matter. 2" high at 100 yards should still killa a deer. But, I hate not being confident in knowing where my bullet will hit.
    You never know when you'll come accress a 300 yard shot.
     
  24. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Clean or oiled barrels do shoot different

    Cleaning a worn or slightly worn barrel will make a difference in Point of Impact (POI).

    I am looking at data from a 6 Oct 100 yard Highpower match. I shot my match M1a. It has a 1:10 Douglas heavyweight barrel. The barrel throats a 3 so it has at least 3000 rounds through it. For 308, an average barrel will erode one graduation on a throat erosion gage for every thousand rounds. Approximately.

    I had really cleaned this barrel out. JB bore paste and Sweets till no copper came out on the patches.

    My normal 100 yard standing zero with this particular lot of surplus 4895 is 12 half MOA clicks up. (I have a ½ MOA disc) Second sighting shot was so low that I clicked up to 15. By shot 3 I was up to 17 clicks, and then by shot seven or eight I had to radically start clicking down. I ended the string at 13 clicks up; I was a bit wobbly and shot a 188-4X standing. Disappointing score. For the subsequent 66 shots, the zero was stable and consistent with previous sight settings.

    For years I have noticed that the first couple of 200 yards standing shots print low on a clean barrel. Might require a half MOA to raise the group, and by the time I am near shot 10, I am back to my old zero.

    Unfortunately, you have to clean your barrel, because massive accumulated fouling will mess up accuracy. I know shooters who seldom clean their barrels. They have done very well. However, after talking to Frank White at Compass lake, he has a bore scope, and he claims that copper and powder get impacted in the throats of barrels, brushes and solvents will not remove it, and it has to be mechanically cleaned (JB bore paste) out. He has seen barrels that were fouled up, had poor accuracy, and after using JB, were restored to excellent accuracy. But you have to use that stuff infrequently and with delicacy because it is an abrasive. Abrasives will round your lands and make the grooves deeper. The stuff adds wear to a barrel.

    I don’t use JB more often than every 300 rounds. And on this barrel, near the end of its service life, I might not bore paste for another 500 rounds. Maybe more, probably not less.
     
  25. shooter_john

    shooter_john Member

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    If you're really concerned about a cleanish bore, but not effect POI too much, maybe just run a boresnake through it a couple of times (no oil, solvent, etc). My 25-06 is a 1/2 MOA gun, but the first round from a clean bore will always be off a considerable amount. Cold bore shots from a fouled barrel are always right on. When I'm shooting for groups (which is most of shooting) I always shoot a couple of fouling shots.
     
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