N.H Officer Killed, attacker killed by passer-by

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Okay, lots of false analogies and strawmen.

In each and every instance, I would have to go with the facts and the evidence. If the vet is beating his kid then there will be evidence. I personally don't give a damn if the guy got the medal of honor bestowed on him by Thor on the side of Valhalla.

None of those things have anything to do with what we're talking about. For any thing that has ever happened, you can choose another incident that illustrates your "not what it seems" point of view.

However most of the time, the guy that shot the cop and ran him over is going to be the bad guy.

Facts in this one all seem to point to that, unless you start making up all sorts of crazy what ifs. The problem with that is that you can What If yourself to death, but at the end of the day, the facts must speak for themselves.

That is why we have courts of law, and not courts of conjecture.
 
From everything I have read, I think the quote in the Nashua Telegraph article from the person who knew both the murdered officer and his killer is really all that is known at the moment:

“He was a good boy and I can’t understand what brought it to this,” he told the Monitor. “Officer McKay was a good officer. Those two had their problems, but I don’t understand how it got so escalated.”
 
how it got escalated? some mommas boy had a feeling of entitlement that led him to shoot some one 4 times and run over him


i gotta wonder if some of these folks are reading the news reports before they rally round this "poor kid". its always a bad sign when your own family doesn't want you. says the guy who left home at 15. worst thing is a world fulla enablers that help someone who starts out as just a young fool grow into a young adult dimwit who does what ever he wants.
 
I'm don't want to be a jerk, but if your mentally sane, and you are willing to shoot a cop, and wait... so ANGRY that after you effectly killed him, RUN him over, I would guess that there is a reason he was angry, however stupid his actions may have been. People don't display that kind of emotion to random people. They do it to people who they feel hurt, or mistreated by.

Does that make shooting a cop or anyone okay? Hell no.

I'm just trying to offer insight into maybe what transpired. In events like these, people always want to know "Why?"
 
if

you are sane

as opposed to being called volatile and a loose cannon? by a relative who is trying to paint you in a good liight?
maybe the drop out was just a sore loser after getting his clock cleaned when he tried to whup the cop.
 
The department probably couldn't afford it and I doubt officers of a small department make the kind of change required to buy one.

A decent vest only costs a few hundred bucks. In this situation the officer might still be alive.
 
More on the good samaritan in the Union Leader today, though it's not terribly favorable and tries to paint him as a nut:

Ex-Marine who shot Kenney: 'I don't miss'

EASTON – The passer-by who confronted and killed the gunman in last Friday's police shooting was an expert marksman who used to alarm his neighbors by firing guns on his own property, court records show.

"I am an ex-Marine and an expert shot. I don't miss what I shoot at," Gregory Floyd, 49, told police officers who searched his home in 1997.

Authorities have decided not to charge Floyd in Friday's shooting, ruling he was justified when he fired at Liko Kenney, 24, just moments after watching Kenney shoot and kill Franconia Police Cpl. Bruce McKay.

Kenney's uncle, Bill, said he is not angry at Floyd.

"I thank him," Bill Kenney said yesterday. "He did an amazing thing."

A "loner" by reputation, Floyd has declined to speak with reporters since the shootings. A woman who answered the phone at his house Sunday said, "This is a private, unlisted, unpublished number. Please don't call again."

Residents in the rural White Mountains town of Easton, home to about 280 people, said they tend to keep away from Floyd, just as he keeps away from them. His property on the southern edge of town is said to be guarded by Rottweilers.

"He's the type of person I'd be very leery of," said Bob Every, the town's former police chief.

Court records show Floyd has had several run-ins with the law over the years. His record includes a 1998 conviction for attempting to knee a police trooper in the groin and a 1997 indictment, later dismissed, for being a felon in possession of weapons.

Authorities searched Floyd's cabin exactly 10 years ago this week after neighbors told then-chief Every they thought Floyd was discharging "fully automatic weapons" on his property, according to documents on file in Littleton District Court.

Floyd at one point apologized for shooting a gun, telling neighbors he was "shooting to scare off bears so his son could sleep," the documents say.

A search of his house turned up six guns, including a Glock 9mm pistol, an Ithaca 12-gauge shotgun and a Rugar Black Hawk handgun, but no automatics.

Floyd and his wife, Michelle, had moved to the area from Townsend, Mass., about six months before that. A record check in that state showed that while there had been arrests for assault with a dangerous weapon, the charges were dismissed.

One day after the May 1997 search, Floyd was charged with criminally threatening a contracted meter reader from the New Hampshire Electric Coop. Floyd allegedly instructed his son, "Go inside and get the pouch." His son, according to the report, said, "Mom is awake. I could not get the gun."

Investigating troopers claimed Floyd told them he could have given them a "third eye."

"I know you wear vests, so I could have put it right between the eyes," he said, according to the papers. "I was sitting on my Ruger."

The case was twice continued that summer. One time was because the troopers would be attending the funeral of two state troopers killed in Colebrook on Aug. 19, 1997.

Minutes before the trial was to have started in October, the case was dropped. There was a heavy police presence in the court that day.

Also in June 1997, Floyd was charged with, and later indicted for, being a felon in possession of weapons, after a records search in Georgia turned up a 1981 felony conviction for selling marijuana.

Those charges were dismissed after Floyd's attorney, Gerry Boyle, successfully argued that the Georgia conviction would not have constituted a felony in New Hampshire in 1981.

He was also charged with simple assault for attempting to knee a trooper in the groin and was given a suspended one- to three-year sentence in the New Hampshire State Prison, according to an order issued on May 28, 1998. He was placed on probation for three years, with the stipulation that he not possess any firearms.

In motions seeking the return of the firearms in August 1998, court papers noted that the guns belonged to Floyd's wife. She reportedly intended to sell some of them and have the others secured in a locked safe in Manchester.
 
"This is a private, unlisted, unpublished number. Please don't call again."

Frankonia is up on the White Mountains and pretty darn rural....I'm not surprised that folks move up there to "not be bothered"......yet notice the courtasy of saying "please".

I think the "rugged individual" types are more common than elsewhere.

Though Floyd may have had issues with "running at he mouth" .... when it came down to brass tacks, he took a risky stand (with his son in the car) on the right side of the equation. I suspect the area LEOs will hold a different opinion of him in the future.
 
Look, Kenny deserved what he got. Clearly.

However, if (IF!!) the cop has been acting how several people have accused, does the PD not bear some responsibility to reign him in. Here is one open case against the murdered officer (from today's Boston Globe):

"In October 2005, a Franconia resident filed a civil complaint accusing McKay of threatening him while McKay was wearing his police uniform and driving his police cruiser. The man, Timothy Stephenson, said McKay rested his hand on his service weapon and said, "I'm going to do whatever I can to get rid of you." The disposition of the case, which was referred to Grafton Superior Court, was unavailable yesterday."
 
People skills can save your life, no matter what side you're on.

And it sounds as if both of these people had bad reputations. In a small town like Franconia, something bad was just bound to happen. Like I said, people skills can save your life.
 
And it sounds as if both of these people had bad reputations.

Strangely enough, the man who killed Kenney with McKay's gun had a bad reputation, too. I'm starting to wonder if anybody up there has a good reputation.
 
Wow///all the High Road Posers in One Place

Geez - I always came to THR because I thought The High Road was more than just a bunch of words...on this thread, evidently not.

Sure is a lot of supposition going on, by a bunch of people who weren't there, only know the part of the history that's reported in the papers, and are jumping to conclusions based on partial information.

Two people are dead, without a good reason for dying. A little more reason on both sides, might have resulted in a different outcome. Pointing all of the blame either way, when we have no idea of the full history, is just guesswork.

Nice to see the High Road alive and well.

Michael
 
Apparently, the passerby (Floyd) had his own run-ins with the cops.

The man who jumped to the aid of a shot police officer in Franconia Friday offered a very different response several years ago to a pair of New Hampshire troopers investigating him on a criminal charge. In 1997, Gregory Floyd, 49, told the troopers how he'd kill them if he wanted them dead.

"I know you wear vests," Floyd told them, according to court records. "So I would have put it right between the eyes.".......

In the past, Floyd has found himself the target of police investigations, according to court records made available yesterday.

Floyd's arrest record goes back to at least 1981, when he was convicted in Georgia of selling marijuana and theft by unauthorized taking, the court records said. Floyd also had a misdemeanor offense of disturbing the peace in Massachusetts, but the date of that offense was not available yesterday. It is unclear from court records when Floyd, his wife Michelle and son Gregory Floyd moved to New Hampshire.

He was in the state by 1997, when he was arrested twice within a month.
In May of that year, the state police charged Floyd with criminal threatening for allegedly showing a clenched fist to a 24-year-old meter reader for New Hampshire Co-op. According to court records, Floyd asked the meter reader, "Do I need to kick your ass?"

The court file did not explain why Floyd was upset with the meter reader. The state police had been to Floyd's house the month before, the court records said, because neighbors had complained that Floyd was shooting guns on his property. Floyd told the police he'd shot at bears to scare them off and said he didn't realize how close other homes were.

Floyd also told the police he had served in the Marines and was an "expert shot," the court records said. When the state police searched Floyd's home, they found six guns but believed they had no reason to confiscate them.

The state police returned to Floyd's home after the meter reader complained that Floyd had threatened him. The police learned that during the meter reader's visit, Floyd had told his son to go inside and "get the pouch." When the son returned, he told his father, "Mom is awake, I could not get the gun," the court records said.

The police charged Floyd with criminal threatening. It was during this incident that Floyd told the police how he'd kill them if he chose to - by shooting them in the head and giving them a "third eye."

Upon further checking, the police learned that Floyd's 1991 drug arrest in Georgia was a felony level offense. That, the state police concluded, meant Floyd could not legally own guns in New Hampshire. In June 1997, the state police added a second charge against Floyd: being a felon in possession of firearms.

During that arrest, Floyd attempted to knee Trooper Scot Bryan in the groin, according to court records, and was charged with attempted assault of a police officer.........

ETC, ETC

They're trying to demonize this guy as much as possible.
 
Sure is a lot of supposition going on, by a bunch of people who weren't there, only know the part of the history that's reported in the papers, and are jumping to conclusions based on partial information.

Supposition is all we are left with, MD. The police and state AG will not release the videotape or eyewitness testimony from Kenny's passenger or Floyd's teenaged son. See Concord Monitor editorial below. No, I am not a cop hater, but this whole sorry incident does not neatly fit into the white hat/black hat category.

There are just so many unanswered questions, and I for one do not find it "anti High Road" to want to know the full story of what actually happened.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070516/REPOSITORY/705160311
 
We're on the Same Page

Skilune - I think we're saying the same thing. Sounds like you are hoping for more info, I was addressing some of the heated flames on both ends based on newspaper account and lots of missing details.

Michael
 
Its cool. I know the area quite well, and ski there frequently. People up there are and around the state are just very upset about this unbelievable tragedy.

Today, on my way to work, I passed three out of town police cruisers headed north. I am sure they were going to Officer McKay's funeral service. It was pretty sad and moving, to me, watching the cruisers headed north....

To me, this is an uncomprehensible tragedy, and I believe it would be a public disservice to not examine the actions of all parties involved, rather than just closing the case as the state seems anxious to do.
 
more on the story.....

Friends and family called Kenney a free-spirited outdoorsman who loved all-terrain vehicles and had issues with authority. Court records show he could be volatile even with his own family

Somehow, I thought learning to respect authority figures was part of growing up (like graduating to Kindergarten??) I guess free spirited hippy kids aren't required to do that.

------------------------------------------------------------------

FRANCONIA, N.H. (AP) _ Liko Kenney, described by friends as a free-spirited "Hippie kid," had a history of bad blood with police Cpl. Bruce McKay. So there was the potential for trouble when a traffic stop brought them together again.

Within minutes of the Friday stop, both were dead, dividing this town's 924 residents between those who see McKay as a fallen hero and those who considered him a bully with a badge.

"It's a tragic situation _ two men lost and two families devastated," said Steve Heath, owner of the Franconia Village Store.

Beyond that, there's little agreement about the tragedy in Franconia, where local Olympian Bode Miller _ Kenney's cousin _ is royalty. His image appears on posters, signs and keepsakes all over town.

Authorities say McKay, 48, stopped Kenney, 24, for speeding, and Kenney asked to deal with a different officer and drove away.

By the time McKay caught up about a mile down the road, Kenney was in a frenzy, according to his friend and passenger, Caleb Macauley.

"I've never seen anyone so scared in my life," Macauley told WMUR-TV.

McKay forced him off the road and pepper-sprayed him. Kenney then shot McKay four times and drove over him.

Gregory Floyd, a passing motorist and ex-Marine who saw it all, grabbed McKay's gun and shot Kenney to death when he refused to put his gun down. Authorities quickly ruled the killing justified.

McKay, who had a 9-year-old daughter, was to have been married in July atop Cannon Mountain, where Bode Miller learned to ski. Instead his funeral will be held at the mountain.

As many as 6,000 officers from throughout the country are expected to attend Thursday's funeral, but in this close-knit mountain valley, where the Kenney family's roots run deep, at least one town may hold back.

Plans to send two fire department vehicles from neighboring Easton triggered a heated debate at the selectmen's meeting Monday night. Chairman Paul White, who is married to Kenney's cousin, moved to keep them away in protest.

Liko Kenney grew up on his grandparents' rustic tennis camp in Easton, where the extended family still lives. Liko's parents own a coffee plantation in Hawaii, and he followed their seasonal migrations: the islands in winter, the White Mountains in summer.

"He was kinda just a happy, hippie kid. He'd do anything to help anyone," said Holly Hayward, 48, who said she'd known Kenney his whole life.

Friends and family called Kenney a free-spirited outdoorsman who loved all-terrain vehicles and had issues with authority. Court records show he could be volatile even with his own family. In January 2003, an aunt, Larisa Kenney, sought a restraining order against her nephew, then 19. In a handwritten letter, she told the court Liko had frightened her by chainsawing trees near her cabin, sending one crashing onto her roof as she slept. When she confronted him, she said Liko exploded _ shouting, grabbing her and then following her on his ATV as she ran to safety at a relative's home.

Just weeks later, Liko Kenney had a violent run-in with McKay, who had followed tire tracks into an isolated parking area. Court documents say it took three officers to subdue Kenney, who tried to escape three times, once while cuffed and shackled. One officer said Kenney grabbed McKay in the groin and that McKay reacted by punching Kenney in the face. Kenney's family and many in town say McKay broke Kenney's jaw that night, but Grafton County Attorney Rick St. Hilaire said Kenney's jaw was not broken.

Kenney could have gone to prison after pleading guilty to resisting arrest and assaulting McKay. But he got 15 days in jail, time served, when McKay asked for leniency, according to St. Hilaire.

Bill Kenney, 56, said the run-in changed Liko, and that his nephew started carrying a weapon because he feared McKay. Other residents say they found him intimidating as well.

"McKay had an attitude, he was rough on people," said florist Jean McLean, 53, who remembers once asking McKay to leave after he tried to shoo away teenagers playing Hacky Sack in front of her store. She called the killings "vigilante justice."

McKay was one of three full-time officers in the department and prosecuted some of its smaller cases. One man, Timothy Stephenson, sued McKay in 2005, alleging that he used his prosecutor's role to settle scores.

The men settled the case last year, with neither admitting blame.

Bode Miller also chafed against McKay, telling Sports Illustrated that he contested a 2005 speeding ticket in part to antagonize the officer.

Police Chief Mark Montminy called McKay a dedicated officer who served the town and department well.

"We don't harass people. He did his job, he did it well, everybody was treated the same. He was very knowledgeable and very professional, a dedicated police officer," Montminy said.

Pastor Gary Hart of Franconia Community Church of Christ said McKay's image as a law-and-order man in an old hippie town may have distanced him from others.

"Most of the time people saw him he was in his patrol vehicle, he was in uniform, he was stopping people on the road for speeding. And once you get a reputation, it's almost impossible to change it," said Hart, who does some police chaplain work.

Hart said he was impressed when McKay responded to a complaint he once made about a noisy wedding reception.

"So when people tell me he was so difficult, that hadn't been my experience," Hart said.
 
McKay's funeral was yesterday. My wife, a State of N.H. social worker had to make a trip to Concord. On the trip down she counted 101 police vehicles and on the trip back 126. These included out of state cars and motorcycles. Those of us that have never been LEO's should stop and reflect a moment. The sense of brotherhood is beyond comprehension. Essex
 
.... but I'll bet that there is much more to this story that we'll never know about.

Sadly, I think you're right: no one will ever know, and questions/rumors will linger forever. AG Ayotte seems to be eager to just shut this whole thing down and move on. Her actions contrast with what happened when Manchester PD Officer Briggs was murdered by a repeat, violent felon earlier this year. In Briggs' case, we heard about what the thug (Stix, I believe his name is) did, and I hope that the punk gets the needle.

I hope I'm wrong, but if people are left with only rumors and innuendoes against Officer McKay and Kenny (and the AG's statement), some people will become distrustful of the entire law enforcement community. And, that would be a damned shame. Imagine how difficult it is being a Franconia cop right now, dealing with the grieving AND a small town that is reportedly "divided" over McKay's murder.
 
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