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Name calling and gun folks

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by cold dead hands, Apr 29, 2007.

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  1. cold dead hands

    cold dead hands member

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    In another thread I called what I consider to be weak, government dependent and illogical type folks...well...sheep.

    What do we call them so that we do not offend them considering that they are offended by our willingness to use self defense and the tool required to so?

    Shall we call them something nice like... oh...i know...unenlightened?

    Help me out here. This is very gun related because we need to call people who are against us or fear us and those who blindly follow the anti-gun parade something.
     
  2. BADUNAME13

    BADUNAME13 Member

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    Sheeple. It's what they are.

    If they are offended what do we care? They don't have any guns!:D
    (Joke)
     
  3. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    Well, the term ignorant comes to mind. Ignorant seems to have a negative stigma attached to it with ties of racism or similar. Ignorant just means:

    1. Lacking education or knowledge.
    2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
    3. Unaware or uninformed.

    It basically means not knowing something because you haven't learned it yet.; it doesn't mean someone is stupid, just unknowledgable in a particular subject (ignorant to the fact).
     
  4. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    The problems as I see them are twofold:
    1. We need to try to understand the motives of various gun-banners. This is the only way we'll learn to form our message so that it fits into their worldview in an acceptable way. Failure to do this will result in loss of 2nd Amendment rights over the long term, as the number of active shooters in our population continues to dwindle as urbanization continues. (Ask yourself what percentage of the US Population lives within 10 minutes of an area where they can hunt, and you'll see where I'm coming from.)
    2. Lots of people believe what they're taught in school; as far as guns are concerned, what's taught seems to mirror what DARE teaches about drugs. Eventually you'll find folks who mostly fit the mold they were poured into, who are beginning to question the validity of what they've been taught. We can welcome them and help them learn, or we can alienate them at every turn because we insist on insulting them for their beliefs. I believe we need to make allies with these folks, personally.
    "The Unenlightened" is certainly better than "bliss ninnies," "sheep,' "sheeple," "Eloi," and the like. I'd also do away with pejoratives aimed at liberals, Democrats, Republicans, Socialists, Libertarians, atheists, Muslims, homosexuals, pacifists, and the rest.. But it's not completely up to me, so...
     
  5. GhostlyKarliion

    GhostlyKarliion Member

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    Heh, good luck finding something that doesn't offend them...

    they live offended by virtue of what they are.


    That being said, I can come off a bit "rough around the edges"... "blatant"... "offensive"... ok ok, I don't give a rats equus asinus what they think and will say what I decide is necessary at the time.


    However, I have used "unenlightened" before and it works really well, places them below everyone else and defeats them in their own mind. once they are broken down it is easy to reeducate them correctly, for example.

    U. "You shouldn't own guns, they are dangerous and only criminals have them"
    M. "hrmph... typical of the unenlightened ones"
    U. "(PO'ed) what is THAT supposed to mean?"
    M. "What you just said is based on feeling, not thought, you don't understand guns, much less have any right to have an opinion about them."
    U. "(Defensive) no, I just think guns are dangerous and you don't need them for anything."
    M. "Look, I'm not saying you are STUPID (emphasized), just ignorant. You haven’t thought it through and you don't know what you are talking about, I'd bet you haven’t even ever held a gun."
    U. "No, I haven’t"
    M. "Well, then you should at least go shooting with me... who knows, you might learn something."
    U. "Well, I don't think so, it's too dangerous"
    ...
    Week goes by
    ...
    U. "Hey, I took your advice, I went shooting with my brother"
    M. "Oh, and?"
    U. "I really liked it, maybe I was a little overboard"
    M. "I've been wrong before too, I'm just glad you went out and tried it"
    U. "Yea, hey I was looking at the .22 rifles, would you help me find one"

    Then I got a date... ooh, yea.


    What? hugh? Oh, right.... sorry, back on topic.

    Anyway, yea, if you find something, I'll be watching this thread ;)
     
  6. DakotaDude

    DakotaDude Member

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    If you truly don't want to be insulting, then I would simply refer to them as "unarmed" if they are people who choose not to own/carry weapons, and "anti-gun" if they are trying to get guns out of the hands of everyone else. I don't think they would find these terms to be loaded with negative connotations.

    FWIW, I despise the gun owners who use terms like "sheep," "sheeple," "hoplophobes," "liberal," "communist," etc. I think it demonstrates thoughtlessness, ignorance, and hostility.
     
  7. alucard0822

    alucard0822 Member

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    I prefer the term "subject", apparently that is all the rage in england. Those of us that are vigilant in our defense of the rights and freedom that our forefathers sought to found the greatest nation under, I would consider "citizens".
     
  8. Aguila Blanca

    Aguila Blanca Member

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    And I was going to suggest using "hoplophobe" as a better alternative. Just goes to show that everything is a matter of perception. Did Jeff Cooper coin the term "hoplophobe" or did he just popularize it?

    As to understanding the motives of the antis, I believe first you have to divide them into two major groups ... of which one is a lot larger than the other. The large group is the group comprised on the "sheeple," the innocents who don't really understand the issue but who have been programmed (perhaps "brainwashed" is a more accurate but less politically acceptable term) to believe that all firearms (all weapons, in fact) are bad, and that in order to have peace and security in the world we MUST surrender responsibility for our personal safety to "the authorities." These people are not (all) stupid, but they are all ignorant. They blindly accept the blatherings of the gun control movers and shakers as gospel.

    The smaller but infinitely more dangerous group is comprised of those either in political power or in a position to influence politicians and who are actively seeking to disarm the populace. These people are not innocent, and they are not ignorant. They are not being mislead, they are doing the misleading. I honestly don't pretend to understand what their ultimate objective is, but I'm always inclined at times like this to wonder if "new world order" might be more than the ravings of a handfull of tinfoil hat-wearing Luddites.

    I have on my shopping list a roll of large-size, heavy-weight aluminum foil. I hope it's enough.
     
  9. bthest86

    bthest86 Member

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    No kidding. Good luck with that. I've had antis get offended because I called them "anti-gun."
     
  10. cold dead hands

    cold dead hands member

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    dakota dude...unarmed is a great adjective, but i find the term to be inadequate.

    Defenseless does not work either.

    We need a better terminology.

    As far as some "name calling" goes, I have always said that people need to call "it" what "it" is and quit beating around the word bush. Like I told my kids, a horse and a car are transportation devices but a horse is not a car... get it?
     
  11. Gunpacker

    Gunpacker Member

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    How about "Lemmings"? Follow the leader off the cliff.

    I have to admit that I think the inventor of "sheeple" nailed it. And as for not insulting them? I don't think they ever think about not insulting us. They are either stupid, ignorant, dishonest, or all of the above.
     
  12. DakotaDude

    DakotaDude Member

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    I agree completely. That's why a think a person who doesn't have a gun should be called "a person who doesn't have a gun," and people who don't want anyone to have a gun should be called "people who don't want anyone to have a gun."

    Inventing new labels loaded with negative connotations isn't telling it like it is.
     
  13. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    THR is double posting AGAIN!

    Deleted...
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2007
  14. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    It doesn't really matter what you call 'em.

    If the faeces ever hits the fan for real and one of the Eloi, (gentlest term I can imagine and your typical anti might very well imagine that term a badge of honor - assuming they even understood the reference) is in the physical or temporal vicinity their title will be moot because Darwin will have won once again and they'll be dead.

    And so might some of us but at least we'll have gone down fighting and not muttering something like "this is impossible, this can't be", as they're being murdered by what ever evil they had the misfortune to be confronted with.
     
  15. Mr White

    Mr White Member

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    How about "ballistically challenged"? Does that offend anybody?

    The way I see it, the antis (can we still say antis?) have no qualms calling us gun nuts, gun crazies, Elmer Fudds, Bambi killers, ticking time bombs, terrorists, cretins, rednecks, mouth breathers, knuckledraggers, ... The list goes on.

    I'm not gonna start being politically correct so as to not offend those who are doing their best to outlaw my favorite passtime. If someone wants to suggest not using such names, that's fine. You have the right to suggest it just as I have the right to ignore your sugestion.

    If it becomes board policy, then I guess I'll have to choose whether to abide by it or find a lower road to inhabit.
     
  16. beaucoup ammo

    beaucoup ammo Member

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    Vulnerable or susceptible! For an actual name, however, not so easy. Among ourselves (off the boards) what does it matter? Call someone who doesn't believe in RKBA whatever comes to mind.

    In a public forum or one on one conversation, "unarmed" seems more than adequate. As in "the unarmed." Let conclusions be drawn from that. It might even start someone thinking: "What if they hadn't been unarmed?"
     
  17. horge

    horge Member

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    Hold on...
    Your problem isn't with the unenlightened, but with the arrogantly malicious,
    who often enough, hypocritically bear arms themselves, and want to deny
    the ability to others.

    Using terms like sheeple, eloi, etc. can sound arrogantly malicious as well.
    Insult the ingrained gun-grabbers all you want, but the "undecideds" that
    seem to make up the majority of Americans deserve more respect from you,
    since ALL of you were once "sheeple".

    I give as much credit to someone who takes on the responsibility of being
    armed from prior reluctance, than to someone who's been born into it.
    It seems those who WERE born into the tradition are as haughty as those
    born into wealth and privilege.

    Privilege.... (hack, cough)
    However, we're talking about a RIGHT here, one you should be anxious to
    ensure for others; not some sort of badge or mark of superior status.
    But then, gun-owners can never be wrong, eh?
    :scrutiny:



    horge



    You have to decide whether your desire is to pick a fight with all who
    do not share your lifestyle, or whether you want to introduce others to it.
     
  18. lurkersince03

    lurkersince03 Member

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  19. -terry

    -terry Member

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    +1 Dakota Dude. Insulting names don't help. People who pride themselves in their rudeness don't help. Unarmed works well, I think. Accurate and has a bit of depth of meaning.
     
  20. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Just two minutes from sanity.
    Why is it necessary that we have a nickname for them at all? Whether you want it to be a perjorative or not, it'll become one.
     
  21. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    What value is there in calling other people names because they don't agree with you?

    I don't know any U.S. law or Constitutional amendment that requires everyone to keep and bear arms, and I think that people who want to be defenseless should have that option.

    My interest is that they do not prevent me from defending myself. I can't think of any names I could call someone that would help accomplish that goal. "You sheep" doesn't seem likely to help any more than "Commie," "Fascist pig," "Idiot," "Loser," "Misguided fool," or anything else that stings.
     
  22. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

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    Get a .22 revolver and a .22 rifle, extra eyes and ears, a few bricks of ammo, some reactive targets and locate a convenient range. Start inviting them to the range and see how many you can begin to call 'new shooters.'

    Many of the unarmed are unarmed for one reason and one reason only-they were not born into a shooting or hunting family and have never been exposed to it. So expose them. The wheat will separate from the chaff and instead of gaining enemies we'll gain friends.

    The majority of Americans are undecided on the issue. Give them an opportunity to decide in our favor.

    Let them go at their own pace. Don't begin to proselytize concealed carry and RKBA the first day at the range. Concentrate on safety, basic competence, and fun. If it clicks with them, you'll have time for elaboration as time goes by. If it doesn't click with them what will you get? Someone who knows a shooter who isn't an extremist, knuckle dragging, etc. and who will know BS when they hear it from dyed in the wool antis. Win-win.

    The majority of non-shooters out there are the last people in the world we want to alienate. They're the swing vote in our issue. We can get the majority of their vote and win our issue or the antis can gain the majority of their vote...especially if we go out of our way to offend them and I don't really think we'd like the outcome of doing that.

    I vote for calling them the swing vote and working to get them to swing our way. This issue will boil down to votes in the end. Find me a political campaign where the majority of the voters were undecided and the winner of the campaign decided to call all the undecided voters unsavory names.

    We need to decide what we want here. Do we want to be 'right,' do we want to be 'self-righteous,' or do we want to win? If we want to win, we'll start working on turning the unarmed into the armed along with us and-failing that- folks that nod and wave when we meet them.
     
  23. tinygnat219

    tinygnat219 Member

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    Just let them open their mouths, then when they use the typical Brady talking points, defeat 'em in detail. It gets exhausting, but I don't refer to them by any names other than Anti-Constitutionalists.
     
  24. telomerase

    telomerase Member

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    A safe, quiet range... a range without drunk rednecks sweeping the handgun stalls with shotguns. A range with no M44 in the next stall. A range with no full autos showering you with hot empties.

    You can see where I am going here... it's a lot easier to teach someone if they're not overwhelmed by the "wolfles" :D .

    It's tough to find a good place nowadays :(

    For that matter, it's tough to find a .22 revolver with a decent trigger pull. I think Byron is using the old "Large Rotating Cylinders" trick... we can't all afford to do that.

    Byron: any suggestions for equipment available in this century :confused: ?
     
  25. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    So just call them "swingers" then ...? ;)
     
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