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Name the most asinine firearms law you can think of

Discussion in 'Legal' started by atblis, Jul 21, 2009.

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  1. atblis

    atblis Member

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    Try and keep this factual. If you're unsure, look up the law. Provide a link to the text of the law. ATF decrees are also acceptable.

    The import points system for handguns is one of my favorites. Supposedly the Glock 26/23 come with a grooved trigger as opposed to the normal smooth trigger in order to have a "target trigger" and thus gain enough points to be importable.

    http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2005/12/15/on_gun_laws_that_are_dumb/

    I could list several more, but I'll let you guys have at it.
     
  2. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    1934 National Firearms Act


    It's very silly without the inclusion of handguns. Add a forward grip to a handgun, BAM illegal. Remove the shoulder stock from a rifle, BAM illegal (but folding stocks are fine!). ADD a shoulder stock to a pistol, BAM illegal. Less than 16" barrel somehow makes a rifle more dangerous... hmm..
     
  3. Dr. Fresh

    Dr. Fresh Member

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    922(r)


    Or all of them. Yeah, I'm going with all of them.
     
  4. 2RCO

    2RCO Member

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    I think General Geoff has the winner.

    The 1934 law is really where it all went wrong!
     
  5. tju1973

    tju1973 Member

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    :fire:The fact that the 922 or whatever the "import points" does not allow a Glock 25 or 28 to be imported, but you can put $100 or less on an American made POS-- ie Lorcin, Bryco, Jennings, Cobra, etc, and have no issues...

    Yeah, the government has our best interest in mind....
     
  6. FHBrumb

    FHBrumb Member

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    In Wisconsin, open carry of a loaded pistol is legal for anyone that can legally purchase it. But once you sit in your car, it must magically and instantly become unloaded and locked away from the owner's immediate access.

    A loaded pistol, or an accessible pistol are both illegal in a vehicle.
     
  7. spartywrx

    spartywrx Member

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    1.) In Michigan, any rifle with a length of 26-30" when folded and is operational is considered to be a pistol and must be registered as a pistol.

    2.) It is illegal to have a loaded long-arm in your car and accessible to you, even if you have a pistol carry permit.

    1+2 = Thus any rifle that falls in the 26-30" range (eg M1 carbine with paratrooper folding stock) is a pistol under Michigan law, and you may now carry it in your vehicle loaded and accessible if you have a concealed pistol permit. Or you can carry it anywhere else if its registered as a pistol in Michigan.


    But don't you dare carry a 31"OAL rifle loaded and accessible in your car! Jail time for that!
     
  8. Landpimp

    Landpimp Member

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    WA State, we can own and install a supressor, but a bullet can not pass thru the barrel..........:banghead:
     
  9. atblis

    atblis Member

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    I've read that's not actually true. Somewhere on here. Was interesting. I'll see if i can find it.
     
  10. janedoedad

    janedoedad Member

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    The "Public Gathering" laws relating to CC and OC in Georgia. :banghead:
     
  11. atblis

    atblis Member

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    Some details?
     
  12. iHateRodents

    iHateRodents Member

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    SBRs are illegal, but pistols are legal. What a crock :banghead:
     
  13. HKUSP45C

    HKUSP45C Member

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    The BATFE says that whomever wrote what you read was wrong.

    http://www.ihmsa.org/BATFE.htm

     
  14. atblis

    atblis Member

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    Funny thing about the ATF is that they are sometimes wrong (disturbingly often), but it'll probably take a court case to prove that. A court case was referenced as the proof that the forward grip on a pistol thing is not necessarily true.
     
  15. janedoedad

    janedoedad Member

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    ATBLIS, Post 12: The Georgia laws are not so much assinine as ambiguous. Below is the short form version from a local RTKBA group. The long form GA statutes would put you asleep.

    From Georgia Packing.Org:


    Public Gatherings: It is against the law (misdemeanor offense) for a person (licensed or not) to carry to or while at a public gathering any explosive compound, firearm, or knife designed for the purpose of offense or defense (including ANY deadly weapon not listed here). A public gathering is defined and includes, but is not limited too, athletic or sporting events, churches or church functions, political rallies and/or functions, publicly owned or operated buildings(Fed, state, or local government buildings), and establishments at which alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises and it derives less than 50 percent of their total annual gross food and beverage sales from the sale of prepared meals or food (Basically bars but not restaurants with bars in them. Check their business license if you are not sure as the state license lists what is a restaurant that servers alcohol and what is a bar. Does not apply to stores that sell alcohol for consumption somewhere else, like liquor stores, gas stations, etc.). Nothing in this code section shall otherwise prohibit the carrying of a firearm in any other public place by a person licensed or permitted to do so. (This means licensees are permitted to carry in stores, malls, financial institutions, and other places open to the public) Five areas are specifically defined as public gatherings, but since the definition of a public gathering is not limited to the five areas, what else could be considered a public gathering? Attorney general Mike Bowers issued an opinion that addresses this very issue. In his definition a public gathering is "a place in which the public gathers or will gather for an particular event or function and does not apply to a place (such as a shopping mall, Walmart, grocery store, McDonalds; see State v. Burns), where people may gather even in large numbers when there is no event or function". So basically a public gathering in addition to the 5 defined areas is an event or function that the general public gathers or will gather for. This may be a parade, music event, free contests, presentation speakers, or any other publicized event that the general public can gather for. Remember however if a public place that is not off limits by the definition of this code section CAN still be defined as a public gathering IF any of the activities defined above are taking place on the premises. i.e. a mall that is hosting a public speaker or a music concert or portions of the mall that hold religious services or portions leased to a government agency.

    Also keep in mind that this prohibition also applies to the grounds that are on or in close proximity of the "public gathering". i.e. the parking lot of a bar, stadium, church, or the common area of the premises that is hosting a "public gathering". It is an affirmative defense to violation of this code section if a person notifies any law enforcement officer or security guard employed to provide security for the public gathering, if you are in possession of a deadly weapon while at a public gathering as soon as you learn of it's presence and you surrender or secure such weapon as directed by the law enforcement officer or security guard providing security for the public gathering. (This does not mean you can carry to a public gathering, this section means that if you are carrying to a public gathering and you realize that you accidentally brought your weapon, then you can come forward to a LEO or security guard and surrender your weapon without risking arrest. This code section is clearly criminal in nature and the burden is on the state to show intent to violate this code section) This law shall not apply to competitors participating in a sport shooting or gun event, law enforcement officers, district attorneys, judges, magistrates, solicitors, persons in the state or US military and more. Please see 16-11-130 for the full list. (16-11-127, Carroll co. probate court, AG opinion U96-22)

    Weapons on school property and functions: It is (felony offense) unlawful for a person to carry ANY type of weapon onto or within 1,000 feet of real property owned or leased by any public or private elementary school, secondary school, or school board and used for elementary or secondary education and in, on, or within 1,000 feet of the campus of any public or private technical school, vocational school, college, university, or institution of post secondary education.

    This code section does not apply to persons who are licensed under code 16-11-129 (Georgia Firearm License) or in accordance with code 43-38-10 (special carry licenses for security guards) when such person carries or picks up a student at a school building, school function, or school property or on a bus or other transportation furnished by the school. (I'm not sure of the total legality actually carrying into a school building while picking up or dropping off a student, but it appears to be completely legal since the code does not say anything about not being allowed to enter the building while carrying. Note that the public gathering code makes an exception for what is allowed in this school law. I wouldn't loiter around in the halls or cafeteria, but instead make a straight bee line to the office and back in order to drop off or pick up a student if you are required to do so.) This code section shall not apply to Teachers and other school personnel who are otherwise authorized to possess or carry weapons, provided that any such weapon is in a locked compartment of a motor vehicle or one which is in a locked container in or a locked firearms rack which is on a motor vehicle. This code section shall also not apply to a weapon which is in a locked compartment of a motor vehicle or one which is in a locked container in or a locked firearms rack which is on a motor vehicle which is being used by an adult over 21 years of age to bring to or pick up a student at a school building, school function, or school property or on a bus or other transportation furnished by the school, or when such vehicle is used to transport someone to an activity being conducted on school property which has been authorized by a duly authorized official of the school; provided, however, that this exception shall not apply to a student attending such school; and shall not prohibit any person who resides or works in a business or is in the ordinary course transacting lawful business or any person who is a visitor of such resident located within a school safety zone from carrying, possessing, or having under such person's control a weapon within a school safety zone(this code section does not apply to anyone carrying or transporting a weapon through the zone, or while conducting business while in the zone, or while visiting someone who resides in the zone. Be advised however if you step onto actual school property (while not picking up or dropping off a student), the building or land the building is situated on, then you are in violation even if you have a license. Be careful!) however, it shall be unlawful for any such person to carry, possess, or have under such person's control while at a school building or school function or on school property, a school bus, or other transportation furnished by the school any weapon or explosive compound.(16-11-127.1)

    Hey, you asked! :neener:
     
  16. HKUSP45C

    HKUSP45C Member

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    Oh, I see, you wanted to argue philosophy. I'll let you take that up with them.

    Last time I checked ATF opinions on laws and rulings were binding until challeged and overturned in a court. You go first, I'll hide and watch.

    But hey! At least we know it's legal, so, it must be.

    The case that spurred the letter was dropped before a verdict was reached but, now that the BATFE has clarified their understanding and intentions of future enforcement there's not much of a legal leg to stand on at this point.

    I'd be happy to concede my ignorance if you can show me some case law where the opinion was struck down as unlawful.
     
  17. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    It was US v Davis, 1993.

    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/us_v_davis2.txt

    Conclusion 27:

    ATF lost but they did not change their written opinion and therefore will still arrest for it.

    ATF's interpretation is still what prosecutors will use to decide what charges will be brought.

    So, you might win like Davis, or you might lose.
     
  18. atblis

    atblis Member

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    See U.S. v. Fix also.

    Funny thing (and very frustrating) is that the ATF in letters has acknowledged that a pistol with a forward grip is not an AOW by citing these court cases.
     
  19. HKUSP45C

    HKUSP45C Member

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    Well... The court granted a motion to dismiss the charges based upon the court's conclusion that a pistol with a forward grip didn't constitute an AOW.

    They didn't actually aquit the defendant and codify it in law. Dismissal on motion based upon the courts findings isn't really a "win" in my estimation. It's like showing up to a fist fight and standing at the playground all by yourself.

    Further, the open letter to FFLs was issued years after Davis was dismissed. I propose that the new clarification and instruction from the BATFE after Davis makes the opinion (of the BATFE) much harder (if not impossible) to overcome in court.

    Again, I could be wrong BUT I think the BATFE would agree with my understanding of the circumstances.

    ETA:
    Do you mean: United States of America, Plaintiff-appellee, v. Lawrence Christopher Fix, Defendant-appellant

    Because I don't how that helps your case. Could you link to the relevant case if the one I've found is not the one you're referring to? If it is the same case, could you provide some clarification as to how it proves that forawrd pistol grips attached to pistols don't create an AOW according the agency tasked with enforcing the law? Or that the agency is wrong according to the Judicial system.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
  20. The Wiry Irishman

    The Wiry Irishman Member

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    How about the 18 to own, 21 to buy laws for handguns and handgun ammunition?
     
  21. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Oh I'm not arguing that it's correct, I was just posting the reference because the guy that brought it up couldn't remember the case name.

    It was a "win" for Davis and a loss for ATF to a certain extent, but it didn't really change anything.
     
  22. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    No open-carry in Texas. (that's just wrong on so many levels)
     
  23. tju1973

    tju1973 Member

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    I agree-- Reconstruction was supposed to end with the 14th Amendment... 8*(
     
  24. SteveCase

    SteveCase Member

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    that would have to be just two words MAY ISSUE
     
  25. jojo200517

    jojo200517 Member

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    Join the military go to iraq come home and still have to take hunters ed class to get hunting permit.

    If you were born after a certain date in SC you have to take hunters ed class no matter what to get permit.


    Oh yeah and no high capacity mags or class 3 weapons for hunting :( Its not like i'm gonna take 30 deer with it any easier than I would with a single shot. I'm gonna just make dang sure one I hit doesn't walk away.
     
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