Captain*kirk
Member
Yeah, I can see that now. Can't get a clear enough view of the cylinder notches to see if they're oval or rectangular, though.
I'm gonna go with 1st Dragoon as my choice.
I'm gonna go with 1st Dragoon as my choice.
Name This Revolver
- Thread starter jeadams
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45-70 Ranger
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Nice family history
Funny thing was that the man surrendered in Marlin, TX. Now I lived there for 14 years, but never knew of any soldiers that were ever posted, residing, or surrendering there from the South. I studied the history of that area, but I was impressed to hear that we had at least one trooper there! Thanks for that bit of information! Ain't history grand? Thanks for sharing it with us....
Wade
Funny thing was that the man surrendered in Marlin, TX. Now I lived there for 14 years, but never knew of any soldiers that were ever posted, residing, or surrendering there from the South. I studied the history of that area, but I was impressed to hear that we had at least one trooper there! Thanks for that bit of information! Ain't history grand? Thanks for sharing it with us....
Wade
BHP FAN
Member
''Name This Revolver..''
OK, I'm going to call it ''Bill''.
OK, I'm going to call it ''Bill''.
twaits
member
At first glance I thought 1st model Dragoon as the burriness of the pic made the stops look oval. But with the blown up pics my vote is for 2nd model.
I just looked again...i think the pics are too blurry to be sure. If I squint my eyes on the blown up pic they look like ovals...
What looks like it could be the lead in before the notch could also just be the light reflecting off the back side of the oval notch.
Maybe I'm just over analyzing...
I just looked again...i think the pics are too blurry to be sure. If I squint my eyes on the blown up pic they look like ovals...
What looks like it could be the lead in before the notch could also just be the light reflecting off the back side of the oval notch.
Maybe I'm just over analyzing...
makos_goods
Member
Okay....... Last time.
Jeadams Great Great Grandfather
An oval bolt stop notch 1848 1st Model
A rectangular bolt stop notch 1848 2nd Model
Jeadams Great Great Grandfather
An oval bolt stop notch 1848 1st Model
A rectangular bolt stop notch 1848 2nd Model
ElvinWarrior
Member
Terrific posting !!! Thanks for sharing !!!
I learned TONS by reading all the stuff posted here !!!
Sincerely,
ElvinWarrior... aka... David, "EW"
I learned TONS by reading all the stuff posted here !!!
Sincerely,
ElvinWarrior... aka... David, "EW"
madcratebuilder
Member
Very few were actually made. TS delivered very few revolvers in relation to money appropriated by the CSA. This is the case with most all the small revolver makers during the Civil War. If you worked in the munitions industry you were exempt from the draft. These workers "paid" to get these jobs. Crony capitalism, corruption, greed, nothing new.
Fingers McGee
Member
oyeboten said:
No, T&S revolvers weren't made til well after the picture was taken. This question was answered in posts 17 and 20. The date of the inception of the company has very little relationship to when or how many of the product was completed.
FM
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makos_goods
Member
Oyerboten,
Fingers already addressed this issue.
The time frame limits what pistol it could be. Because the photo was taken in 1862, it pretty much means the pistol had to be a Colt's 1848 2nd Model.
I have done some light research on the Sherrards and all of the pistols built in Texas. The earlier "Sherrard" models had the lowered hammer profile and the square trigger guard. The later models when Clark became the money man were of the 3rd model Colt's trigger guard pattern. Those where much more faithful to the Colt's design and the best examples were assembled after the war.
Even though the contract from the State of Texas was signed on April 9, 1862 the first pistols weren't delivered until 1863 according to information in the Sanders-Metzger Collection at Texas A&M (There may have been some prototypes or pilot production samples around, but it is doubtful they would have made their way to a photo studio as a prop.). They have an example of a Tucker, Sherrard & Co. dragoon on display there. There is also a Dance revolver there, Colt's Dragoons and a couple of nice Walkers.
The Museum used to be online until about three years ago and was a great research tool. Now you have to visit in person or be a registered "researcher" with permission form the university to access the archives that have the photos.
Regards,
Mako
Ahhhhh...( TS Dragoons being too late for this image )...
But, far as the Draft or Dreft deferment is concerned...I was not aware that the Confederacy had enacted any 'draft'.
Too bad about Texas A&M having stopped their on-line access to info on collections...I sure would have liked to have seen images of some of their Treasures, for sure.
But, far as the Draft or Dreft deferment is concerned...I was not aware that the Confederacy had enacted any 'draft'.
Too bad about Texas A&M having stopped their on-line access to info on collections...I sure would have liked to have seen images of some of their Treasures, for sure.
makos_goods
Member
Yep, 1st national draft in America. Happened in March of '62. The union followed suit exactly one year later. Before that the Federal government didn't have the right to conscript. There had been compulsory requirements for enlistment in the militia as far back as colonial times, but no national conscription. That was colony, city or local and then leading to state authority, but no national authority to do so.
It's actually a violation of state sovereignty (both U.S. and C.S.A.) and showed the creeping usurping of power by the Federal Governments. In the South when Jefferson Davis did it almost by decree there was almost an insurrection. The Confederate congress rubber stamped his proposed act and there was violent resistance in some cases. People forget the reason the Confederacy seceded was due to an encroachment and dilution of State's rights, this was salt in an open wound.
The actual number of true conscripts for the North was extremely low, probably as low as 2% for the Union, there were actually more men (probably 6%) who were paid substitutes than men that were drafted in the Northern Armies. In the Confederate Armies the number of conscripts were probably somewhere between 25 and 33 % after the Spring of '64 in the Armies East of the Mississippi. There were huge numbers of exemptions and you could buy your way out on both sides. The Southern conscription originally specified men between the ages of 18 and 35 and was changed to 17 to 50 in early '64.
C.S.A. enlistments were changed as well with the original being one year and then changed to 3 then changed to the "duration." Each time the enlistment was changed it was right before there there would have been a mass exodus of enlistees from a particular raised Army.
~Mako
joelvca
Member
Is it just camera angle, or do the position of the hammer and the nipple recesses in the original photo suggest that the hammer is resting between the nipples? Did the Dragoons (of whichever model) have the safety pins, whatever they are properly called?Okay....... Last time.
Jeadams Great Great Grandfather
An oval bolt stop notch 1848 1st Model
A rectangular bolt stop notch 1848 2nd Model
Regards,
Joel
Busyhands94
Member
looks like a Dragoon to me.
twaits
member
Is it just camera angle, or do the position of the hammer and the nipple recesses in the original photo suggest that the hammer is resting between the nipples? Did the Dragoons (of whichever model) have the safety pins, whatever they are properly called?
That is exactly the case. That's why I still think they could be oval notches with the light reflecting on the back of the notch. The notch is lower on the gun in the original photo because it is probably loaded and the hammer is resting on one of the pins between the nipples for safe carry.
I now am convinced it's a First Model Dragoon.
That is exactly the case. That's why I still think they could be oval notches with the light reflecting on the back of the notch. The notch is lower on the gun in the original photo because it is probably loaded and the hammer is resting on one of the pins between the nipples for safe carry.
I now am convinced it's a First Model Dragoon.
col.lemat
Member
for what its worth
my vote is a second model dragoon
my vote is a second model dragoon
BHP FAN
Member
''Name This Revolver''...
OK, it's ''Bob''...LOL! Sorry, could not resist...I'll be quiet, now.
OK, it's ''Bob''...LOL! Sorry, could not resist...I'll be quiet, now.
Skinny 1950
Member
If it could be authenticated as a Walker the photo then becomes one of very few that exist. There were not that many made and are the holy grail for some Colt collectors.
makos_goods
Member
Skinny,
It's already been established that it is not a Walker (US 1847 Model Holster Pistol). The barrel is too short, and the lever is wrong. The only way it could be a Walker is if someone went to great pains to shorten the barrel, replace the sight in exactly the same position as the 1848 Dragoon series and trim the loading ever and square it to match the profile of a Dragoon (US 1848 Model Holster Pistol). Ohhh, and I forgot... the wedge is on the wrong side for a Walker and the cylinder is too short. So unless they remade the entire frame and shortened the cylinder as it couldn't be Walker.
The only mystery is whether it is a 1st or 2nd Model Dragoon. That is why we have been looking at the cylinder stop shapes. Oh I guess there is a One in a Billion chance it could be a "Whitneyville Dragoon" That would be even rarer than a Walker, but I'd bet my life it wasn't. I'm pretty sure it is a 2nd Model US 1848 Holster Pistol (2nd Model Dragoon), but I can see why others might think it was a 1st model.
Have a nice day,
Mako
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twaits
member
Skinny 1950 does bring up a good question though. I wonder if there is ANY known photograph from the 1800s of a person holding a Walker? If so I would love to see it!
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