Nat. Guard in N.O. LA

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Thefabulousfink

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Just found this on Yahoo.news.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060619/ap_on_re_us/new_orleans_national_guard
NEW ORLEANS - Mayor Ray Nagin asked the governor Monday to send National Guard troops to patrol his city after a violent weekend in which five teenagers were shot to death and a man was fatally stabbed in argument over beer.

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City leaders convened a special meeting to voice outrage after the killings Saturday in an area near the central business district.

"If we don't have wind knocking us down, we have shooters knocking us down, and that's unacceptable," said City Council President Oliver Thomas.

Saturday's shootings — plus the fatal stabbing Sunday night in an argument over beer — brought this year's murder toll to 53, raising fears that violence was back on the rise in a city that was plagued by violent crime before Hurricane Katrina drove residents away last year.

Crime has been creeping in the city: 17 killings in the first three months of 2006, and 36 since the start of April.

The shootings Saturday of five teenagers who had been in an SUV together created one of the bloodiest attacks in this city's turbulent history; the last killing with that many victims was in 1995.

Nagin asked the governor to send up to 300 National Guard troops and 60 state police officers to patrol the city.

The City Council said it also would consider increasing overtime for police to put more officers on the street and it called for a "crime summit" within two weeks.

"We have to deal with it now," Councilman Arnold Fielkow said. "If we don't make people feel safe in their homes, nothing will happen. Let's make this priority Number One."

Cynthia Willard-Lewis, who represents predominantly black eastern New Orleans, said a big part of the solution will be getting young people off the streets and into caring environments such as schools.

She suggested opening schools after hours but didn't say how that could have prevented Saturday's 4 a.m. shooting, which police have said apparently was either prompted by drugs or revenge.

"We're looking forward to the day when ... this city returns to being one of the safest cities in America," Nagin said.
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It seems that Mayor Nagin is dead set on turning NO into a police city. What a brave new, chocholate, world:neener:

Edit: If people complined about using Nat. Guard for border patrol, how will they feel about using them for police?
 
"We're looking forward to the day when ... this city returns to being one of the safest cities in America," Nagin said.
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Who does he think he's kidding? New Orleans hasn't been "safe" since the white man took it away from the Indians. It started out as a river port, and had all the violence problems historically associated with such.
 
Nagin

Ladies and laddies...I had to go absorb the comment:

>>If we don't make people feel safe in their homes...<
**********************

Now, sit back and let that sink in for a minute or so. Right there! He just
gave you the typical Police State mentality...proved what his mind is like

We...MAKE...people feel safe. MAKE...people...safe.

And, he's going to do that with the overwelming police presence that runs past every residence in every part of the city in a neverending procession 24/7/365...?? No? Then how? In case he hasn't noticed, people don't commit crimes when the police are in the area. At least, not the ones with an IQ higher than your average housefly.

But he...THEY...are going to MAKE people feel safe.

It goes hand-in-hand with the dire predictions of "Blood running in the Streets" when the CCW Shall Issue states stepped up to the plate and said "Yes, we will."

When the carnage failed to materialize, they were a bit mystified. Just couldn't understand how it was that we bloodthirsty, out of control savages weren't so savage, nor so bloodthirsty, nor so out of control as they believed us to be.

How can that be, Chuck? Teddy? After all...we weren't allowed to carry a concealed weapon until after Big Brother told us that we could.

Ever consider the possibility that most of the ones who applied for a carry permit...and many who didn't...had been carrying all along? Nah! Couldn't be!
Ya'll didn't say it was okay. You didn't say "Simon Says" so nobody
stood up! Nobody would dare take responsibility for their own safety without first obtaining permission from our babysitters...our mentors...our oh-so-much more intelligent and beneveolent leaders...Right?

Here's a big 'ol clue for ya. When you said that we couldn't arm ourselves for our own protection, the thugs didn't pay ya any mind...and neither did we.
Why did so many of us choose to disobey your wishes? Because we knew that when you said that the police would protect us, and make us feel safe in our homes and on the streets...we KNEW...that you were fulla sheep dip.

Suggest that you tend to the affairs of state, and let us tend to our own backyards...We've done it for a lot longer than you've been in that office. And let Mayor Nagin clean up his own house. It's plenty dirty.
 
NEW ORLEANS - Mayor Ray Nagin asked the governor Monday to send National Guard troops to patrol his city after a violent weekend in which five teenagers were shot to death and a man was fatally stabbed in argument over beer.
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Uh...hello. Does POSSE COMITATUS ring a bell, Mr. Nagin? :barf:

June 18, 1878
SEC. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.

10 U.S.C. (United States Code) 375

Sec. 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel:

The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.
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how bout you take all the money youd spend on that, buy a 1911 for everyone in the city and a few hundred rounds of ammo, and give them out.

The morons will kill themselves and once that is taken care of you will have a well armed nice city that is worth visiting.
 
Thefabulousfink said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060619/...national_guard
NEW ORLEANS - Mayor Ray Nagin asked the governor Monday to send National Guard troops to patrol his city ...
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Dear Mayor Nagin:

No.

Your city is your responsibility. You are partly responsible for this crime wave. National Guard troops should not be asked to help you clean up your mess. Fix it yourself. New Orleans is your responsibility.

I suggest you start by getting everyone employed. Idle minds and idle hands are the devil's playground. Your chocolate city needs to be a city on the mend; that means everyone working toward betterment. Suggest you start terminating welfare programs and see what happens. People might start working. Then relax taxation on private business; that will help tremendously!

I suggest you continue by looking elsewhere for law enforcement. Time and time again, most recently during Katrina, your New Orleans police force has shown its true colors by being the laughstock of the nation and totally corrupt; any Boy Scout troop in the nation has more integrity! You might dismiss them all and hire new police, from top to bottom, from elsewhere. Do this now.

I suggest you conclude by allowing citizens their rights under the Constitution in New Orleans; Second Amendment rights primary. Taking citizens guns makes things worse rather than better.

Sorry sir; we don't send National Guard troops to fix mayor screw-ups. Fix New Orleans yourself. By the way... you need to hurry... next strong wind is just off the coast!

Signed.

American Taxpayer

btw... you still need to reimburse nation for all the help we provided during Katrina...we understand lots of it was frauduently used and we want our funds back...

oh yeah...last point... If I were you I would locate all the city's buses and keep them handy; just a suggestion...
 
The National Guard is not patrolling the border.
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True...

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/06/16border.html

The 6,000 National Guard troops ordered to the U.S.-Mexico border by President Bush will stay up to two years, strictly to support the Border Patrol, not to join or supplant it, Lt. Gen. H. Steven Blum, chief of the U.S. National Guard Bureau, said Thursday in Austin.

Blum and Paul McHale, assistant defense secretary for Homeland Defense, were at Camp Mabry in West Austin to kick off the assembly of Texas Guard troops for deployment to the border. They said the troops will observe illegal border movement, gather intelligence and build border barriers while the interdiction, confrontation and arrest of illegal border crossers will remain in the hands of the Border Patrol.
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But wait ....

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50401

The head of the U.S. National Guard surprised Border Patrol officials, declaring some of the troops he will send to assist them will work in close proximity to the border, be armed and allowed to fire their weapons if necessary. "Any soldier assigned to a mission where he would be placed in harm or danger, where his life would be threatened potentially, will in fact be armed and will have the inherent right of self-protection," Lt. Gen. H. Steven Blum told the San Antonio Express-News Thursday.
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So, I wonder if NO National Guard will be armed?
 
The NG on the border is a very different scenario than putting the NG in NO. Along the border, they are building fences and providing support for the Border Patrol. This is not much different than if they had been called out to reinforce a levy against rising flood water. Allowing some of the NG to carry weapons is no different than if that levy was under fire from criminals and drug smugglers. The weapons are there so the NG can defend themselves from the armed criminals that frequent the US-Mexico border, not so they can hunt down and engage them.

Putting the NG in New Orleans is for the purpose of controlling the population, in this case the criminal element. Nagin is not planning on using the NG to do paperwork so more LEOs are free to walk the beat, he wants them patrolling the city. As pointed out above this is illegal unless Congress allows it (i.e. Martial Law).

Nagin's desire to call out the National Guard not only shows his Statist mentality, but also his ineptitude and refusal to deal with his own mess. If Katrina didn't show how unfit Nagin is (and I don't see how it didn't), this act would show it clearly.
 
Does everything have to be a conspiracy to turn the country into a police state?

I have a feeling that this is more about an ineffective administration that doesn't want to spend it's own money on providing enough police to do the job, then it is about turning New Orleans into a police state. If they actually hired all the officers they took grant money from the feds to pay for, they would then have to pay those officers and that wouldn't leave much left over for the politicians to steal.

He's also asked for 60 state troopers. You know for years the Illinois State Police provided the majority of the police services in East St Louis, for those exact same reasons, the city couldn't afford the money to pay the officers and keep their cars and radios working.

Jeff
 
Come on Jeff, the bums down there confiscated weapons illegally, forcibly removed people from their homes, and now they want the national guard down there...it's not like these particular calls of "statist" are without background or merit.

We're all guessing here, none of us truly knows what Nagin's intent is, so your guess is as good as mine. I wish you saw it that way, would make for a more pleasant conversation.
 
Conspiracy

Jeff asked:

>Does everything have to be a conspiracy to turn the country into a police state?<
********

Of course not, Jeff...but when a city official appeals to the Governor for a military presence, it's teetering dangerously close to martial law, when the problem rightly belongs to the local police and the city administration. If he can't get a handle on it, he should step aside and let someone else take a crack at it...besides the U.S. Military.

It also sets a dangerous precedent if he gets what he's asking for. Can't handle the crime in your city, Mr. Mayor? The 82nd Airborne is at your disposal. Yeah, I know...but how long will it be until Posse Comitatus is overridden in the name of peace and safety? The next national elections?
The next executive administration? We've got more than a few aspiring politicians and incumbents who would welcome an opportunity like the one that Katrina gave Nagin.

My ol' grandpappy used to tell me: "Coming events cast their shadows before them." These shadows are a bit...troubling.
 
Not meaning to give a long, boring quoted post, I tried to give some info that illustrates the how the Posse Comitatus Act has been trampled in the recent years...


Wounded Knee
.........the 1973 take-over of a facility on the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota, and the subsequent siege, arrest and trial of members of the American Indian Movement (AIM). During the course of the siege the federal civilian law enforcement authorities made extensive use of material, personnel and equipment provided by the military
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Waco ....
According to a report by the U.S. Department of the Treasury, the list of military personnel and equipment used at Waco included: 15 active-duty military personnel, 13 Texas National Guard personnel, nine Bradley fighting vehicles, five combat-engineer vehicles, one tank-retrieval vehicle and two M1A1 Abrams tanks. Additionally, Fort Hood reportedly was used for much of the training.......
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More recently...


In the fall of 2002, the Washington DC metro area was subjected to a series of apparently random sniper shootings. ........... During this period the Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, authorized the use of the U.S. Northern Command in supplying “assets and capabilities” to civil law enforcement to help track down the sniper(s). Although military personnel and equipment played no role in the eventual arrest of the two individuals accused of participating in the sniper attacks, John Allen Muhammed and Lee Malvo, the use of Army RC-7 fixed wing aircraft, equipped with high technology sensors and manned by military personnel, provoked charges that the government had violated the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. ............
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At first glance it would appear that the Posse Comitatus Act 1878 embodies the principle of the separation of the military from civilian law enforcement......... However, it is interesting to note that no one has ever been convicted of violating 18 USC 1385, and when needed Congress has been quick to create statutory exceptions as permitted by the Act............ It could even be argued that the Act has only served to legitimize the military role of a posse comitatus by providing Congress with the ability to create its own exceptions whenever the need arises.
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http://www.llrx.com/features/posse.htm
 
I thought NO had a...

police department................I guess the magic word is "had".....The only thing we have ever seen is the chief saying he is going to take citizen's guns away again.........chris3
 
Sorry but posse commitatus only applies to the federal government. The National Guard belongs to the the governor of the state unless called into active federal service.

When the guard is called up for a mission like that, the state of Louisiana would have to bear all the expenses of the mission, to include paying the federal government for the use of federal owned property. (almost every piece of equipment the Guard has is owned by the federal government) The state will bear the cost of the wages for the troops (the pay scale for state active duty is not the same in every state as the military pay scale, in many cases jr enlisted soldiers and airmen are paid more money then they would make on federal active duty. The state would also bear the cost of all the fuel burned, feeding and housing the soldiers.

Unless the president or scretary of defense were to call them to federal active duty and deploy them to New Orleans, posse commitatus doesn't apply.

Jeff
 
I am sorry Roadwild17,

If handled poorly, this has great potential to turn out bad...and given NO track record for handling things, well I'm just glad I live on the other side of the contry.

Take care of yourself Roadwild17, and watch your six.
 
Posse

Federal Government...State Muscle. It's still a military presence. Not during a declared emergency or natural disaster...but acting as a police force. Slippery, slippery slope there. The term "Powder Keg" comes to mind.
 
Manedwolf said:
Uh...hello. Does POSSE COMITATUS ring a bell, Mr. Nagin?
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As already noted, posse comitatus does not affect the National Guard when they are called up by the Governor. Otherwise, the Governor could never call out the National Guard without violating posse comitatus.
 
Just because this isn't illegal acording to Posse Comitatus doesn't make it a good idea. As 1911tuner pointed out it is a slippery slope. These are soldiers, not police, and are not properly trained to deal with the subtleties of law enforcement.

This is a BAD idea.
 
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