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Nat. Guard in N.O. LA

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Thefabulousfink, Jun 19, 2006.

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  1. Thefabulousfink

    Thefabulousfink Member

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    Just found this on Yahoo.news.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060619/ap_on_re_us/new_orleans_national_guard
    It seems that Mayor Nagin is dead set on turning NO into a police city. What a brave new, chocholate, world:neener:

    Edit: If people complined about using Nat. Guard for border patrol, how will they feel about using them for police?
     
  2. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    Who does he think he's kidding? New Orleans hasn't been "safe" since the white man took it away from the Indians. It started out as a river port, and had all the violence problems historically associated with such.
     
  3. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    Well other than needing Federal money, and State troops, looks like things are going very well there.:evil: :evil:

    Kevin
     
  4. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    And how does he propose to do that ... by busting down their doors and stealing their guns ...? :rolleyes:
     
  5. engineer151515

    engineer151515 Member

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    Generally speaking, I wonder if the NG will carry loaded weapons on patrol. You know, like they are NOT allowed to do at the Mexican border.
     
  6. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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  7. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    The National Guard is not patrolling the border.
     
  8. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Nagin

    Ladies and laddies...I had to go absorb the comment:

    >>If we don't make people feel safe in their homes...<
    **********************

    Now, sit back and let that sink in for a minute or so. Right there! He just
    gave you the typical Police State mentality...proved what his mind is like

    We...MAKE...people feel safe. MAKE...people...safe.

    And, he's going to do that with the overwelming police presence that runs past every residence in every part of the city in a neverending procession 24/7/365...?? No? Then how? In case he hasn't noticed, people don't commit crimes when the police are in the area. At least, not the ones with an IQ higher than your average housefly.

    But he...THEY...are going to MAKE people feel safe.

    It goes hand-in-hand with the dire predictions of "Blood running in the Streets" when the CCW Shall Issue states stepped up to the plate and said "Yes, we will."

    When the carnage failed to materialize, they were a bit mystified. Just couldn't understand how it was that we bloodthirsty, out of control savages weren't so savage, nor so bloodthirsty, nor so out of control as they believed us to be.

    How can that be, Chuck? Teddy? After all...we weren't allowed to carry a concealed weapon until after Big Brother told us that we could.

    Ever consider the possibility that most of the ones who applied for a carry permit...and many who didn't...had been carrying all along? Nah! Couldn't be!
    Ya'll didn't say it was okay. You didn't say "Simon Says" so nobody
    stood up! Nobody would dare take responsibility for their own safety without first obtaining permission from our babysitters...our mentors...our oh-so-much more intelligent and beneveolent leaders...Right?

    Here's a big 'ol clue for ya. When you said that we couldn't arm ourselves for our own protection, the thugs didn't pay ya any mind...and neither did we.
    Why did so many of us choose to disobey your wishes? Because we knew that when you said that the police would protect us, and make us feel safe in our homes and on the streets...we KNEW...that you were fulla sheep dip.

    Suggest that you tend to the affairs of state, and let us tend to our own backyards...We've done it for a lot longer than you've been in that office. And let Mayor Nagin clean up his own house. It's plenty dirty.
     
  9. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    Uh...hello. Does POSSE COMITATUS ring a bell, Mr. Nagin? :barf:

     
  10. Lupinus

    Lupinus Member

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    how bout you take all the money youd spend on that, buy a 1911 for everyone in the city and a few hundred rounds of ammo, and give them out.

    The morons will kill themselves and once that is taken care of you will have a well armed nice city that is worth visiting.
     
  11. Camp David

    Camp David member

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    Dear Mayor Nagin:

    No.

    Your city is your responsibility. You are partly responsible for this crime wave. National Guard troops should not be asked to help you clean up your mess. Fix it yourself. New Orleans is your responsibility.

    I suggest you start by getting everyone employed. Idle minds and idle hands are the devil's playground. Your chocolate city needs to be a city on the mend; that means everyone working toward betterment. Suggest you start terminating welfare programs and see what happens. People might start working. Then relax taxation on private business; that will help tremendously!

    I suggest you continue by looking elsewhere for law enforcement. Time and time again, most recently during Katrina, your New Orleans police force has shown its true colors by being the laughstock of the nation and totally corrupt; any Boy Scout troop in the nation has more integrity! You might dismiss them all and hire new police, from top to bottom, from elsewhere. Do this now.

    I suggest you conclude by allowing citizens their rights under the Constitution in New Orleans; Second Amendment rights primary. Taking citizens guns makes things worse rather than better.

    Sorry sir; we don't send National Guard troops to fix mayor screw-ups. Fix New Orleans yourself. By the way... you need to hurry... next strong wind is just off the coast!

    Signed.

    American Taxpayer

    btw... you still need to reimburse nation for all the help we provided during Katrina...we understand lots of it was frauduently used and we want our funds back...

    oh yeah...last point... If I were you I would locate all the city's buses and keep them handy; just a suggestion...
     
  12. Lonestar.45

    Lonestar.45 Member

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    I'd think 10 months post-Katrina, they ought to have their stuff together by now.
     
  13. engineer151515

    engineer151515 Member

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    True...

    http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/06/16border.html

    But wait ....

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50401

    So, I wonder if NO National Guard will be armed?
     
  14. Thefabulousfink

    Thefabulousfink Member

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    The NG on the border is a very different scenario than putting the NG in NO. Along the border, they are building fences and providing support for the Border Patrol. This is not much different than if they had been called out to reinforce a levy against rising flood water. Allowing some of the NG to carry weapons is no different than if that levy was under fire from criminals and drug smugglers. The weapons are there so the NG can defend themselves from the armed criminals that frequent the US-Mexico border, not so they can hunt down and engage them.

    Putting the NG in New Orleans is for the purpose of controlling the population, in this case the criminal element. Nagin is not planning on using the NG to do paperwork so more LEOs are free to walk the beat, he wants them patrolling the city. As pointed out above this is illegal unless Congress allows it (i.e. Martial Law).

    Nagin's desire to call out the National Guard not only shows his Statist mentality, but also his ineptitude and refusal to deal with his own mess. If Katrina didn't show how unfit Nagin is (and I don't see how it didn't), this act would show it clearly.
     
  15. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Does everything have to be a conspiracy to turn the country into a police state?

    I have a feeling that this is more about an ineffective administration that doesn't want to spend it's own money on providing enough police to do the job, then it is about turning New Orleans into a police state. If they actually hired all the officers they took grant money from the feds to pay for, they would then have to pay those officers and that wouldn't leave much left over for the politicians to steal.

    He's also asked for 60 state troopers. You know for years the Illinois State Police provided the majority of the police services in East St Louis, for those exact same reasons, the city couldn't afford the money to pay the officers and keep their cars and radios working.

    Jeff
     
  16. NineseveN

    NineseveN member

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    Come on Jeff, the bums down there confiscated weapons illegally, forcibly removed people from their homes, and now they want the national guard down there...it's not like these particular calls of "statist" are without background or merit.

    We're all guessing here, none of us truly knows what Nagin's intent is, so your guess is as good as mine. I wish you saw it that way, would make for a more pleasant conversation.
     
  17. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Conspiracy

    Jeff asked:

    >Does everything have to be a conspiracy to turn the country into a police state?<
    ********

    Of course not, Jeff...but when a city official appeals to the Governor for a military presence, it's teetering dangerously close to martial law, when the problem rightly belongs to the local police and the city administration. If he can't get a handle on it, he should step aside and let someone else take a crack at it...besides the U.S. Military.

    It also sets a dangerous precedent if he gets what he's asking for. Can't handle the crime in your city, Mr. Mayor? The 82nd Airborne is at your disposal. Yeah, I know...but how long will it be until Posse Comitatus is overridden in the name of peace and safety? The next national elections?
    The next executive administration? We've got more than a few aspiring politicians and incumbents who would welcome an opportunity like the one that Katrina gave Nagin.

    My ol' grandpappy used to tell me: "Coming events cast their shadows before them." These shadows are a bit...troubling.
     
  18. engineer151515

    engineer151515 Member

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    Not meaning to give a long, boring quoted post, I tried to give some info that illustrates the how the Posse Comitatus Act has been trampled in the recent years...


    Wounded Knee

    Waco ....
    More recently...



    http://www.llrx.com/features/posse.htm
     
  19. ball3006

    ball3006 Member

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    I thought NO had a...

    police department................I guess the magic word is "had".....The only thing we have ever seen is the chief saying he is going to take citizen's guns away again.........chris3
     
  20. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry but posse commitatus only applies to the federal government. The National Guard belongs to the the governor of the state unless called into active federal service.

    When the guard is called up for a mission like that, the state of Louisiana would have to bear all the expenses of the mission, to include paying the federal government for the use of federal owned property. (almost every piece of equipment the Guard has is owned by the federal government) The state will bear the cost of the wages for the troops (the pay scale for state active duty is not the same in every state as the military pay scale, in many cases jr enlisted soldiers and airmen are paid more money then they would make on federal active duty. The state would also bear the cost of all the fuel burned, feeding and housing the soldiers.

    Unless the president or scretary of defense were to call them to federal active duty and deploy them to New Orleans, posse commitatus doesn't apply.

    Jeff
     
  21. Roadwild17

    Roadwild17 Member

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    To my understanding, I'm at work right now about 15 min away from NO, the governor just OK'ed it.
     
  22. Thefabulousfink

    Thefabulousfink Member

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    I am sorry Roadwild17,

    If handled poorly, this has great potential to turn out bad...and given NO track record for handling things, well I'm just glad I live on the other side of the contry.

    Take care of yourself Roadwild17, and watch your six.
     
  23. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Posse

    Federal Government...State Muscle. It's still a military presence. Not during a declared emergency or natural disaster...but acting as a police force. Slippery, slippery slope there. The term "Powder Keg" comes to mind.
     
  24. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    As already noted, posse comitatus does not affect the National Guard when they are called up by the Governor. Otherwise, the Governor could never call out the National Guard without violating posse comitatus.
     
  25. Thefabulousfink

    Thefabulousfink Member

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    Just because this isn't illegal acording to Posse Comitatus doesn't make it a good idea. As 1911tuner pointed out it is a slippery slope. These are soldiers, not police, and are not properly trained to deal with the subtleties of law enforcement.

    This is a BAD idea.
     
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