National Guard To Seize Guns, Ammo Ahead Of Hurricane Irma

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by CoRoMo, Sep 5, 2017.

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  1. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    I'm not up to speed on the US territories' powers in these circumstances, but I thought they were also governed by the US Constitution. This article unfortunately does not get into those details at all.
    Here's a copy of the signed order: http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/NATL-GUARD.pdf
     
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  2. Waveski

    Waveski Member

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    Dang RoMo --- You beat me to it my mere minutes - I was just about to post the same article.

    I fail to understand why the National Guard of the Virgin Islands would have a practical need for whatever miscellaneous weapons and ammunition the citizens would be holding. Isn't the National Guard there already armed? It looks to me as though the opportunity for abuse of the intent of the emergency declaration and the right to seizure included thereof is wide open. Very troubling --- "This is for your own protection , sir..." .

    I find this very troubling.
     
  3. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Odd that they didn't do that in Texas.

    Ok, maybe not so odd after all but who elects these people? I think they should grab any other stuff they want too while they are there, maybe just kick people out of their homes so the National Guard folks have a place to stay while they are at it. Would cut down on search times to just evict everyone.
     
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  4. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    Kenneth Mapp has roots in New York City? Used to be a Republican before 2001 then became Independent after that?

    If this is a legitimate news story, this looks like a gun grab.

    I haven't found anything on the NRA website or elsewhere to show his stance or voting record on guns.
     
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  5. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    "If the Gov says I own 10 guns and takes them all, how many do I have left?"

    "That's right: 14."
     
  6. acdodd

    acdodd Member

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    In Washington state the Governor can order the same thing.
    Not sure how it would be accomplished but they can try.
     
  7. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    Most places if they need stuff they can just take it in a declared emergency. the actual order that was signed does not require anything to be confiscated. Just allow it if deemed necessary.
     
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  8. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    Here's a copy of the Virgin Island's gun laws from the ATF website. There appear to be some significant differences between the V.I. statutes and the Federal Government's laws.

    https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/guide/state-laws-and-published-ordinances-2010-2011-virgin-islands/download
     
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  9. wally

    wally Member

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    My second wife's brother moved to the VI many years ago, I'm still holding for him what was probably his most valuable gun when he left. I haven't heard from him in many years, but I'd be thrilled to return it to him someday.
     
  10. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    The way I read the order they CAN sieze arms, ammunition, explosives, incendairy material and any other property that may be needed by the military to perform their duties if necessary. Not that they will. Of course this opens the door to abuse.

    But at the same time, it COULD happen here in any state. There are systems in place where the government could issue a similar order.
     
  11. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Can you imagine if they told the people in Texas they had to give up all their guns and ammo? I doubt they would even have the secure storage facilities necessary.

    The order is pretty vague, "and any other property that may be required"..... can mean any and all things.
    What happened to Article IV, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..."?
     
  12. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Member

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    Didn't they they confiscate guns in New Orleans during Katrina?
     
  13. Legionnaire
    • Contributing Member

    Legionnaire Member

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    Yes, and a U.S. District Court ordered them to stop doing so almost immediately.
     
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  14. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    No.

    First, you're citing the 4th Amendment, not Article IV of the Constitution.

    Second, it doesn't apply.

    The United States Virgin Islands are an organized, unincorporated territory of the United States.
    • As an "unincorporated" territory, the United States Constitution does not fully apply any more than it would apply to some living in Papua New Guinea or Ethiopia.
    • The Virgin Islands are "organized" based on a act passed by Congress providing for a three-branch government that sort of mirrors our own (but with only one legislative assembly) and a "Bill of Rights" that does not include a direct equivalent to our Second Amendment. This organizing act functions as the Virgin Islands Constitution until they come up with one of their own.
    • The organizing act provides for the Virgin Islands to hold a Constitutional Convention to draft a Constitution (that must be ratified by the Islanders and approved by Congress) but after 60+ years, the Virgin Islanders have still not come up with a document their people will ratify and Congress will approve.
    • When (If) a Constitution is ever approved it will become the governing law in the Virgin Islands and they will be governed by the Virgin Islands Constitution, not the United States Constitution.
    If you will look at the link in post #8 regarding the gun laws in the Virgin Islands, you will see that all guns must be registered and you have to have a license to purchase a gun.
     
  15. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    Texas is part of the United States and so the U.S. Constitution applies here.

    The U.S. Virgin Islands is an unincorporated territory and the U.S. Constitution doesn't apply there unless some part of the 1954 act organizing the territory says it does. The organizing act does not include a direct equivalent to the Second Amendment so the rules are different down there.
     
  16. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    The thread title is very inaccurate.
     
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  17. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    I liken it to clickbait.
     
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  18. Waveski

    Waveski Member

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    The title should have said AUTHORIZED to seize guns.....that would be factual.

    It sounds to as though gun ownership in V.I. is a privilege , not a right. Privileges can be revoked.

    If an individual's guns are seized in the Virgin Islands - in the interest of conducting the mission given to the National Guard , and that individual is beset by looters , is he to shout "The government might give me my guns back someday , so you better get off my property if you know what's good for you!!!" ?
     
  19. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Unfortunate for those living in US possessions. Might be nice to change the Constitution to make it apply to all US held possessions and citizens living therein. Perhaps a new SCOTUS case can be made someday that Heller applies to all US governed territory.
    In AZ the law has been changed post Katrina to forbid doing any type of confiscation of private property - the only allowable thing is to move large stores of ammunition ahead of fires and such.
     
  20. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    And here is a perfect example of how registration can and will lead to confiscation at some point in time, when "they" deem it necessary.
     
  21. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    To me this is not so much a 4A unreasonable seizure as a 5A taking of private property for public use without just compensation.
     
  22. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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  23. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    The provisions of the Fifth Amendment have been applied to the states through the Incorporation Clause in the Fourteenth Amendment.

    How might that be relevant here?
     
  24. Kendal Black

    Kendal Black Member

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    This is a standard order of commandeer. No doubt the resident lawyers, sea and otherwise, will expand upon the concept.

    Pirates love rum, yo ho ho, but has anyone considered where rum was invented and is produced?

    com·man·deer
    ˌkämənˈdir/
    verb
    1. officially take possession or control of (something), especially for military purposes.
      "telegraph and telephone lines were commandeered by the generals"
      synonyms: seize, take, requisition, appropriate, expropriate, sequestrate, sequester, confiscate, annex, take over, claim, preempt; More
      • take possession of (something) without authority.
        "he hoisted himself onto a table, commandeering it as a speaker's platform"
      • enlist (someone) to help in a task, typically against the person's will.
        "he commandeered the men to find a table"
     
  25. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    So it is basically saying that the National Guard is going to loot the citizens. Nope, wouldn't work around here. Someone could get killed. I know someone would around here with the Good Ol' Boys.
     
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