Natural point of aim.

[chris in va]

I 'll also point out, my 21sf had a longer, more pronounced grip than say a 26. I suspect the bigger backstrap on the 21 forced the muzzle up even higher than even a 19 might.

 

[murf]

do you dry-fire practice? most of the recommendations given above can be tried this way.

murf

 

[theflatlander]

9mmepiphany

Thanks again for all the information. You have definitely gave me some stuff to think about and some ideas on what to try at the range. I normally shoot on Fridays and when I do I will try to take some pictures of the targets I am shooting at using different techniques that you have described.

Again, thanks every one for the information. It is much appreciated

 

[theflatlander]

murf

I do dry fire practice occasionally. Not as much as I should I am sure

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I come from the school of thought that says there is no "natural" POA because the human hand has not evolved with pointing a gun in mind.

When people ask my advice for choosing a handgun for defense one of my tips is to choose a handgun that you can grasp and point as naturally as you point your index finger at an object. I refer to it as "point-ability".

 

[Remllez]

OP,

If you can't find formal training, you may want to google what your looking for and find a DVD and an empty patch of gun friendly Government land up Fargo way and practice, practice, practice. Dry firing on a wall costs you nothing but time.

 

[RedTag]

Go to the range, or hang a target somewhere with an empty gun. Take a natural stance, put your weapon out in a natural stance and close your eyes. Now move your gun in circles about 10 times with your eyes closed and point where you think your natural aim is. Open your eyes and see what your site picture looks like. Do your best to not adjust your hands, but adjust your feet until you get your sites into alignment. It may take a few tries, but eventually you will find your natural stance and aim to get on target in a hurry.

This really works. I had a similar problem learning my natural aim but after a few sessions doing this i was able to get on target faster and was surprisingly more accurate after i got on target as well!

 

[Sam1911]

Go to the range, or hang a target somewhere with an empty gun. Take a natural stance, put your weapon out in a natural stance and close your eyes. Now move your gun in circles about 10 times with your eyes closed and point where you think your natural aim is. Open your eyes and see what your site picture looks like. Do your best to not adjust your hands, but adjust your feet until you get your sites into alignment. It may take a few tries, but eventually you will find your natural stance and aim to get on target in a hurry.

That is an effective method of establishing your "NPA" for traditional marksmanship tasks like CMP/Highpower rifle, smallbore position rifle shooting, bullseye pistol, and similar precision shooting disciplines.

It doesn't have much of a clear place in "practical/action" type pistol shooting as most folks would be using a Glock or other service or concealment type handgun to shoot. There, your footing may have no relation at all to your orientation to the target, you may be kneeling, you'll probably at least be moving while shooting, the targets themselves may be moving, etc. "NPA" for this kind of work has more to do with finding a handgun (or setting up a handgun) that will point wherever you'd naturally point your finger instinctively.

Of course these things are somewhat similar to each other, but they also have significant differences. One such difference is that with fast, mobile handgun shooting you can, and will need to, train yourself to present your gun properly to your intended point of aim without relying wholly on how your body would "naturally" do that. To a degree, finding a gun that points similarly to what your body does anyway will help.

But that's really just a very basic starting point. You aren't putting yourself at a grave disadvantage to pick a handgun that has the features that appeal to you and practicing until you have a Trained Point of Aim that will be far more effective than any equivalent "Natural" point of aim.

 

[Ankeny]

It doesn't have much of a clear place in "practical/action" type pistol shooting...

I agree. Some instances where NPA can come into play are many of the "stand and deliver courses" such as some classifiers, shoot offs, standards, and of course steel (bootleg courses and steel challenge). Then there is NRA Action Pistol where knowing how to take advantage of your NPA can make the difference between a really good run and a great run.

...your footing may have no relation at all to your orientation to the target, you may be kneeling, you'll probably at least be moving while shooting...

Yup, you hit the nail on the head. That is why it is so important to develop an index that will allow the gun to come to the exact place you are looking. Look at the spot you want to hit vs. "area aiming". Look to the center of the plate, the middle of the available target area, etc.

As far as finding your NPA, one must first have a proper grip, balance, and stance. Small changes in foot placement can make a huge difference in your npa vs. the target face.

 

[TAKtical]

"Natural point of aim" aka reflex shooting is based on muscle memory. Shoot more often, try again later.

 

[theflatlander]

I have a couple pictures of my last trip to the range. I have been trying to practice at least 50 dry fires each day now and also balancing a bullet on end on the front of the slide also.

These were at ten feet. I did as 9mmepiphany suggested and I tried to really pay attention not trying to tense my grip my thumbs or pinky fingers. Also
i really tried to pay attention to the placement of my trigger finger.


pulling bottom right is pretty common for me and was still happening even trying not to grip with my thumbs and pinky fingers. I had other targets i shot at also and it was the exact same thing hitting bottom right. I just choose this picture because my group was very tight out of the two 3 rounds groups I shot.

I ended up shooting about 75 to 80 rounds and nothing changed trying to not use my pinky or thumbs for gripping. I started getting very frustrated.

At the end I finally just loosened up my grip and became as relaxed as a I possibly could and that was the three shots in the circle in the above picture.



the picture above was the last three shots I took at my last range session. I honestly believe I was still over gripping even when I thought I wasn't. I believe I was also extending my arms out way to hard and between my super human grip and trying to extend out so hard it was causing me to pull my shots. I was out of ammo by the time I started to figure out what I thought my own problem was. this next Friday should hopefully shine some more light on the subject since I feel I know how to fix my problem now.