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Navy Arms "Zouave" 1863 Remington Rifle?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by DougB, Feb 15, 2008.

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  1. DougB

    DougB Member

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    I have an opportunity to buy a new reproduction Remington 1863 "Zouave" rifle for about $440. I've seen them listed for considrably more than that ($600 range), so I'm thinking that this may be a good buy, but I'm not sure - maybe I'm not looking in the right places - is this a good/great price for such a rifle?

    Also, I'm concerned that I've read that this model may not have been issued/used during the Civil War. Apparently opinions differ on this, and I've spent a fair amout of time on the web trying to find a definitive answer to this question. It seems apparent that it wasn't a commonly used rifle, but I'd like to think it was actually used in some battle during the war.

    If I could get one of the more commonly used Civil War rifles for a comparable price, I'd probably go that route, but I do like the look and shorter length of this "Zouave" replica - I'd just like to be able to say it is a replica "Civil War rifle" (without haveing to insert the qualifier "era").

    As background, I already have a fairly traditional styled "Hawkin" style rifle, a flintlock Kentucky/Pennsylvania style replica, and a replica Colt 1860 Army revolver.

    Thanks

    Doug
     
  2. Harve Curry

    Harve Curry Member

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    I don't have the answer to your question, but the N-SSA should in the forum section, also guns for sale. A quick search for N-SSA (North-South Skirmish Association) should find it for you.
     
  3. DMZ

    DMZ Member

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    I have a 1863 Remington "Zouave" rifle that I bought in 1982. It is an Italian made replica, Zoli I think. Those rifles were very popular back then and there were many on the market. I grabbed mine used for $80 and have used it for blackpowder only deer and elk hunting. Mine has a nice patina and looks very authentic due to use. I shoot only Minie balls over 70 gr of FF blackpowder. Mine has proved to be very accurate with that combination.

    They are well balance (relatively speaking), very nice looking rifles and are NSSA approved.

    My research indicated that the 1863 Remington was made in moderate numbers, but never issued during the war. Many were issued to state militias after the war and a few were even converted to breech loaders (those are very rare and very valuable).

    I am not sure on price these days, but I looked and found Navy Arms has one for well over $600 as does Dixie Gun Works for the same price. So, $400 sounds like a buy, especially for a rifle that is a great deal of fun to own and shoot, and that's what really counts.
     
  4. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm under the impression that they were never issued and remained in storage. However, they're supposed to be excellent shooters (the originals, that is).
     
  5. mec

    mec Member

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    Came along too late to issue but some were converted to shotguns for civilian use and others sold to the Egyptian governement. I shot one a while back in conjuntion with a Guns Magaine article and found it a very fine piece.
     
  6. Tomb29

    Tomb29 Member

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    1863 Zouave

    Mainly to DougB I have 2 zouaves and love them both. I use one set for 50yds and one for 100 yds and will be competing in the NSSA nationals next month. I also got a non NSSA legal Zouave Carbine that Navy Arms sold in the 60's that is a 22 inch barrel version that they produced for hunters who liked the shorter gun in the woods. Still in .58 Cal. there is one or two on GunBroker.com now along with a few regular size also. Look up Zouave and Zoli and you will see what is available.
     
  7. sundance44s

    sundance44s Member

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    I just bought a Zouave Carbine last month at a gunshow for 200 bucks ..had been wanting one for a while ..it`s a great shooter with patched round balls or minnies ..I don`t shoot it much even though I cast my own lead ..it takes alot of lead to shoot these guns.
     
  8. RevCon

    RevCon Member

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    Ranson

    I just picked up a Ranson "Italia" reproduction Remington 1863 "Zouave" rifle at an auction for $80. The rifle looks to be brand-new with just one very small spot of surface rust on the barrel.

    Actually, the auction house screwed-up as I had bid on a Hawkin, but they listed me as the winning bid on the Ranson. Several days passed before I got around to looking at this rifle and realized the mix-up (I bought several different rifles that day).

    Anyway, I was glad to see that this style rifle was actually produced for the war (but may or may not have been issued).

    I am having a hard time finding information on Ranson (made in Italy). Anyone heard of them before? I think they went our of business back in the 1960's?

    I have a good size gun collection, but this is my first blackpowder. Figured Memorial Day would be the appropriate day to break this in.:)
     
  9. DrLaw

    DrLaw Member

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    Would I like to have one?

    Yes, you bet. :p

    Would I like to have one at the price you are finding? Sure thing! :D

    Was I a dumb ass and passed up several opportunities to get one? Of course. :banghead:

    The Doc is out now. :cool:
     
  10. sharps59

    sharps59 Member

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    They Can be used in N-SSA comp. Which mean at least 100 of these were in the possion of either state, federal or confid. arsonial during the CW.
     
  11. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Welcome RevCon,
    As I previously posted in the following TFL thread regarding Ranson: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2764522&postcount=9:


    Also see this THR thread:

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=308578&highlight=ranson
     
  12. Tomb29

    Tomb29 Member

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    The Zoli manufactured Zouaves seem to be the best made (not made any more). I have 3 of them now and the last 2 I got on gunbroker.com for $325 and they are brand new. This is about the average price and unless you are buying one of the new ones out I wouldn't go any higher than about $375-400 tops Be patient and they will show up
     
  13. sharps59

    sharps59 Member

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    FYI

    go to the N-SSA site there is a long running discussion on the zouave.
    about it being issued what moldle it was that it my or may not have been called:banghead:
     
  14. oneshooter

    oneshooter Member

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  15. sf46

    sf46 Member

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    From the Navy Arms website:

    1863 "ZOUAVE" RIFLE, .58 CAL.
    On April 18th, 1863, Remington began shipping its Government order of 10,001 "Zouave" rifles. The 1863 Remington was never actually issued to Zouave regiments, but for some reason the name "Zouave" was attached to this special rifle.

    http://www.navyarms.com/html/cw-union.html

    It was issued to some military forces according to this, but as someone else said that could mean that they simply sat around in an armoury some where. That was still roughly two years before the end of the war, so it is still very likely that some of these guns saw action some where.
     
  16. rjsixgun

    rjsixgun Member

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    It has always been my understanding that this rifle was Remingtons "improved" version of the US 1841 Rifle or "Mississippi" and while Remington did make it, it was not issued, or not issued in numbers. This also happend with the Rodgers & Spencer pistols, they were made but not issued.
     
  17. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

    kwhi43@kc.rr.com Member

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    Love mine. Bought my Zoli new from Navy Arms in 1976 for 78.00 Replaced
    the nipple with a Tesco that will take No. 11 caps. Have shot many thousands
    of shots. Won many a match. Gun will shoot under 1 inch groups at 50 yds.
    I shoot 60 grs Goex FFF and a .575 ball and .020 pillow ticking patch. Mine
    has the 1-72 twist. Around the midwest they go for around 250-300. If I could have only one Black Powder rifle, This would be it! It can do anything.
     
  18. Shotgun Willy

    Shotgun Willy Member

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    I got a great deal on one (sold by DART and made by PR, whoever that is), last summer, I think. Shoots really well, but I still haven't worked up the right load for it yet. I've been using 60 gr. Pyrodex RS, behind a .575 PRB. I really haven't had the time to work with it all that much, but I think I need to cut it down to 50 gr. or so, since I'm still about a foot high, at 100 yards.
    It's centered over the target, but always high.
     
  19. Hellgate

    Hellgate Member

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    Mine shot high too. It depends on what you want to do with it before you mess with the sights. If you were to shoot a minie ball it might shoot lower as it might drop further by the time it hits 100yds. I ended up both lowering my rear sight notch and putting a higher front sight on in order to get it to hit right on at 100yds with a 575213-OS minie and 90grs FFFg. Mine is a Zoli. If you are wanting to shoot the PRB then it depends on whether you are wanting hunting or target loads. For hunting, you want the fastest load that is reasonably accurate at 100yds. For target shooting you just want the most accurate and the charge is usually a modest one. Either way you find the most accurate load you are going to shoot most of the time and then adjust the sights to line up with where it hits. Some of the N/SSA target loads are with a minie and 40-50grs powder (3F or 2F). Not a hunting load in my book.

    Shoot 3 shot groups from a solid rest with 5 grains difference for each charge til you see groups narrow down and then begin to open up. Sometimes there are two sweet spots: one at a low charge and one at a much higher charge. To avoid flinching at the higher charges I will put a sand bag on my shoulder to make recoil negligible.

    One of the most important things I do is keep a shooting log book to RECORD my findings as your memory WILL fail eventually. It is maddening to not remember which load was the sweet one.

    Good luck.
     
  20. CAMPBELL49T

    CAMPBELL49T Member

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    Muzzleman

    I have a 58cal zouave. I bought it used for 350. If the one you are talking about is new jump on it. I have five long guns and the zouave is one my favorites.
     
  21. bonza

    bonza Member

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    I have two Zouaves. The first one is from Euroarms of America, it has AZ stamped on the rear of the hammer, so not sure if they were made by Antonio Zoli for EoA or not. I bought mine about ten years ago, & it has been a great shooter, the quality is very good. I also have an original that I got a real good deal on a few months back, but haven't gotten around to shooting it yet.....& the anticipation is killing me!!
     
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