Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Navy Yard and its implications.

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by RandyRay41, Sep 16, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. RandyRay41

    RandyRay41 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    171
    Whats going to be the impact of our newest mass killing? Wonder if this will be classed as workplace violence? or terrorist attack? or just some wacko out killing for the joy of killing. I don't know, but the attack on our 2a is going to come out with a ferocity we have not seen yet over this one.

    There must be discussion to be pro-active or we all stand good chance to lose much. JMHO.





    My last thread on this was closed by a moderator, if this one closes, i will not post again.
     
  2. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,542
    Location:
    Central PA
    The facts aren't even all in yet, and even when they're known, what in the world is the point of speculation? There's no strategy to be made that hasn't been in place and employed since Newtown, Aurora, etc., etc.

    They're coming? They're ALWAYS coming. Keep up the fight, always.
     
  3. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    47,615
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    We know that there will be attempts to exploit this tragedy, but the one thing we need to have is the facts of the case to be able to counter the rantings of the Antis. What do we plan around other than we already know that any tragedy will be used by the Antis? We need specifics to form a plan with that will have any effectiveness.

    We need to vigilant, but we don't need to go off half cocked. We need to check our weapons to know if we understand how to use them (understand the details of this tragedy), but we don't know what direction the attack will come. We need to understand who our allies are and who is allied with our enemy (that one's not too difficult since our enemies and their allies are well known to us). Until the actual attacks start Keep your powder dry and stay on watch and don't waste time shooting at shadows in the dark.

    As to this tragedy being "worse" somehow, I don't understand how, but we should look at the possible angles that the Antis will take to exploit it.

    POTUS already tried to make hay off of it, but made a serious misstep trying to characterize the victims as being uniformed personnel instead of the actual thousands of civilian employees and contractor employees working in building 197. We can exploit that in return by pointing out that very few uniformed personnel work there and the POTUS should already know that before going off half cocked. Here's what we're actually learning about the victims that POTUS couldn't take the time to find out.- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/local/navy-yard-shooting-victims/?hpid=z3

    CNN has mixed messages going out. On the one hand a security specialist is pointing out that the problems associated with defending against "lone wolf" attackers. Then their more neutral "Why did he do it?" headline. So far no raving Anti rhetoric, but we'll see something along those lines from them. ABC has one, but it also is a mixed message http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mass...n-families-gun-control-push/story?id=20275320 The NY Daily News jumped right into full Anti mode http://www.nydailynews.com/, but they're not going to get national play like the NYT or CNN or the others.


    YES, we need to be ready for the Antis to exploit this tragedy, but we can't afford to go off half cocked and shooting our mouths off like POTUS did or we'll harm ourselves. Gather information, prepare the arguments, stay vigilant, deal with probes carefully with an eye on the battle (don't waste resources) ahead.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  4. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,908
    Location:
    Arizona
    As an example:

    The Washington Post has reported that the shooter had a shotgun, that the BATF&E traced to a FFL retailer where he bought it. Supposedly this was a legal sale that included a background check. However while this information might be useful to our cause, it's useless until a reliable source confirms it.

    So we have to wait and let the dust settle, and hope the other side gets a case of foot-in-the-mouth. :evil:
     
  5. HexHead

    HexHead Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3,295
    Location:
    TN
    Well, I heard an FBI spokesperson say that he only entered the building with a shotgun, and acquired the pistol and AR after removing them from his victims.

    Is that reliable enough of a source?
     
  6. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    Location:
    Southern VA
    CNN now reporting a Remington
    870 12 gauge purchased with a BG check over the weekend.
     
  7. tommy.duncan

    tommy.duncan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    437
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Well, I would not believe anything from the lib rags CNN or the Wash Post. Yesterday CNN started off the "another AR15 used in a mass shooting," they never posted that he did not bring the AR. Eventually, through other news agencies, we will eventually learn the truth.
     
  8. skeptical_in_Ohio

    skeptical_in_Ohio Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Ohio
    LZ Granderson Column (read it first - really)

    Hi all-

    I kept waiting for the catch, but for the most part it never came:

    CNN - LZ Granderson: Gun control is not the answer

    It's clear that he's no fan of the NRA (I thought he took a bit of a cheap shot actually), but here are three quotes I found relevant (parenthetical comments are mine):

    "...And it (i.e. mass shootings) will keep continue to happen until the advocates (i.e. of gun control) accept that ridding the country of guns is a hopeless -- and unconstitutional mission -- and that the real goal should be addressing the factors that lead to the various forms of gun violence: factors such as poverty, mental health and failing schools..." (admittedly a typo there at the beginning of the paragraph)

    "...Because like it or not, the folks spraying our cities with bullets are not NRA members or legal gun owners..."

    "...This is why gun-control advocates need to abandon the routine of using mass shootings to turn law-abiding citizens into social pariahs and instead focus on something that could work..."
     
  9. joe-bue

    joe-bue Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The last thing that I read being reported, was that there was no AR-15, only handgun and shotgun.

    As the info evolves it just keeps changing.
     
  10. verdun59

    verdun59 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    Virginia or South Carolina
    We need to get the message out that political correctness is the cause of many of the mass shootings, and it needs to be repeated over and over.
     
  11. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    47,615
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    I'm sure you know what you mean by that, but most folks won't. Please explain further.
     
  12. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6,620
    Unfortunately in the 24 hrs prior the MSM and anti gun politicians have had the chance to drag guns, gun owners, the NRA and frankly everything but the actual cause through the mud.
    Crap reporting and political grandstanding is what kills it for us with the so called fence sitters. Not easy to combat lies and half truths when one side gets total access to the media and is now proving to be largely false.
    I'm sure that there were sick SOB's that actually felt good about another shooting.
     
  13. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    47,615
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  14. HOOfan_1

    HOOfan_1 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    4,698
    Location:
    Virginia
    I head on the radio this morning that he was "spraying people with an AR-15 assault rifle".

    Nothing I have read recently at all indicates he had anything other than a shotgun when he walked on to the Naval Yard, and then pistols he took from guards he killed.

    It is sad that I CAN believe that news outlets would say something so definitively that was not true.
     
  15. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    47,615
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    The reference to "journalism 101 - You can be first as long as your right" is very apt. These days with tweats serving as news things far too often are "you can be right as long as you're first". There's a price to be paid for big mistake like this and we should pound away at the media outlets that are slow to revise their story and at the politicians that don't recant their lies.
     
  16. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    47,615
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
  17. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,275
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    But you'll never hear an apology for lying about the AR. Get their "shots" on assault weapons as soon as possible. Journalism is a joke. Worry about being first with a story. Not being first with an accurate story. Ratings, Ratings, Ratings. Doesn't matter who gets hurt. It's just shameful to politicize something like this tragedy, especially only one day after.
     
  18. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6,620
    I wonder if there really is a price to be paid for this crappy journalism? Who will be able to make a difference in a timely manner?
    The internet forums?
    Talk radio?
    We will preach to the choir but the MSM will run with stories like the one linked to above in which they somewhat retracted earlier stories but then went on to devote much of the story to the AR and how deadly it is.
    We can not deny the efficiency of the tool, I still contend that aside from total door to door confiscation we need to understand that living with guns in society will and always has been dangerous to a very few. What we need is the freedom to defend ourselves when the random nut job acts out.
     
  19. Double_J

    Double_J Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Montgomery AL for now
    When I heard what happened yesterday I knew that the Navy was going to step up security today, and I was right. We had security guards "wanding" everyone at the turnstile to get into the controlled area at work. What a joke as you can see them from the parking lot, and if you thought of doing bad things all you have to do is wait till tomorrow when they are not there.

    I also had quite a good time playing the what if game today. One of my co-workers thinks that we are safe because we have so many security guards with guns around. I responded that IF I were a bad guy I only need to take out one of the security guards with a knife/blunt object and then I have a free gun and ammo. I can then use that gun to get more guns and ammo from the responders. That got quite a bit of attention, especially when the news came on and said that the shooter obtained weapons and ammo from security guards after they were shot. I think I made the point that armed security is not that much of a deterrent to a motivated person. I do want to see what the final verdict is, how did he get the shotgun, how did he get it onto the post, and what really happened during that whole time.
     
  20. Texan Scott

    Texan Scott Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,184
    Location:
    The Texas Hill Country
    Seems on Aug 7th, the shooter told police in Rhode Island that he was hearing voices, and that they were "sending vibrations to his body" to stop him from sleeping. The police reported this to the Navy.

    He evidently went to the VA repeatedly. It sounds like he may have actually been ASKING for help.

    If that's the case, the system failed him every bit as much as his victims.

    [sarcasm] Clearly, guns are the problem, and it's all the NRA's fault. [/sarcasm]
     
  21. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Messages:
    14,886
    Location:
    Lewisberry, PA
    Yes, there is and they are paying it.

    Viewers have stopped watching them. The news spots on CBS, ABC, NBC, and CNN have all lost significant viewers and market share. They're a shell of what they once were. People stop watching when they get lied to repeatedly.
     
  22. HOOfan_1

    HOOfan_1 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    4,698
    Location:
    Virginia
    One article I read today said he had tried to buy one and was denied.

    Yesterday I heard he was a CCW holder. One of those does not jive with the other.

    Hard to separate the wheat from the chaff after only a day and such sloppy journalism

    Edit: ok just read your article, said he was denied due to not being a Virginia Resident. I have never heard of that law....I wonder if he had an ID from a state which bans ARs....
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  23. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,282
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    This event will be used by the media and this President to smear good soldiers who might have PTSD. They will claim all veterans are potential time bombs and should be denied their 2nd amendment rights.

    Bans on shotguns will be called for, and Obama will look to stop shotgun imports - because congress is in his way.

    The Right will blame the sequester and an overwhelmed VA system.
     
  24. verdun59

    verdun59 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    Virginia or South Carolina
    hso,
    It sickens me to see people like Seung-Hui Cho, Nidal Hasan, James Holmes, Jared Lee Loughner, and Adam Lanza (who are all mentally ill) acquire weapons and destroy lives. I have to go through a background check every time I buy a weapon and I don't mind doing so. These people also go through a background,
    and for all intents and purposes it's meaningless. Due to political correctness, their mental problems seem to never be on record, and the public is left to fend for themselves , at the present time, for if the political correctness crowd had their way there would be confiscation of all guns, as some have already stated.
     
  25. jad0110

    jad0110 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,027
    Location:
    Somewhere between the Eastern Block states and Flo
    First off, my prayers go to those that did not survive. We must be mindful of that going forward, and always, ALWAYS take the high road.

    That said, I work in one of these intellectually bankrupt "gun free zones", aka, nut job empowerment zones. I actually heard more than one coworker state these gun free zones are nothing more than free range killing fields, and they should be done away with. Like shooting fish in a barrel as one put it. Chillingly, this same nut was possibly on our base recently.

    Though completely abolishing gun free zones would clearly be the best for RKBA and something most of us want to see, it is probably unrealistic. OTH, I'm thinking of writing my senator and representative to suggest that if anything, allow concealed carry in federal installations if said citizen can pass the exact same or very similar shooting test(s) (and any directly related written tests) as the civilian police or MPs/SPs, at our expense. Including requals. I know, it isn't gonna happen either, but I think it is a good idea. I'd sign up in a heartbeat. Carrying my 1911 would sure beat the can of wasp spray in my drawer.

    Point is, as things settle down a bit, going on the offensive may be a good option. Respectfully of course.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page