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Neck sized once fired brass would not chamber in same rifle.

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by hang fire, Apr 3, 2013.

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  1. hang fire

    hang fire Member

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    My neighbor has 700 Remington in .270. He hand loaded some 130 grainers using the Lee Classic whackem neck sizer loader, but he could not chamber the reloads. Brass is once fired Remington, which was originally chambered and shot only in his 700 with no problems.

    COL is 3.200”, I miked the cartridge case body diameters and found nothing out of specs. Don’t have a HS gauge, and not visible when compared to factory, the shoulder measured to have moved forward.

    Not having a .270 FL RS die, I used a RCBS FL 30-06 sizing die with the deprimer/neck expander rod removed, I set die for shell holder to just kiss, then screwed die in 1/4 turn further. FL sized and the cartridges now feed as normal.

    Could this be a head space problem?

    Will be interesting after firing the reloads to see if shoulder has again moved forward.
     
  2. ironworkerwill

    ironworkerwill Member

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    Yea, looks like HS is a fuzz to tight, I suspect a go gage would still "go". He could try different brass. The remmy brass is not poping back after the shot.
     
  3. Innovative

    Innovative Member

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    This is a very common problem when neck resizing - sooner or later your handloads don't fit well. In fact, most of the time they don't. This problem never happens when full length resizing. Most shooters are surprised to find out that benchrest shooters use full length resizing dies.

    The best thing you can do is to switch to a full length resizing die, and set your die height accurately. Your FL die should bump the shoulder back about -.001" and no more.
     
  4. hang fire

    hang fire Member

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    This was once fired only, was not from repetitive neck sizing reloads.

    As Ironworkerwill stated, it does appear to me also that the HS is off.
     
  5. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    Perhaps the factory loads were hot enough (or brass alloy had the right properties) for the cases to stretch out of spec on one firing, or the chamber is radially assymetrical.
     
  6. dsm

    dsm Member

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    Sounds like a shoulder bump is needed. Sounds like he needs to get a full length sizer.
     
  7. Dthunter

    Dthunter Member

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    It could be from a variety of reasons. I had a rem 700classic in 35Whelan that couldnt rechamber a fired round. I could fire a new case, eject it and not be able to rechamber it.

    Upon inspection, the chamber had a bad finish. The reamer had chattered and left longitudal gouges in the chamber. This caused a fired case to have little ridges over the length of the body evenly spaced around its circumference. It took a full length die with hefty pressure to size the cases enough to facilitate normal chambering! But boy that rifle would shoot! Under 3/4" average! At 100yds.

    As far as neck sizing not working for most factory chambered rifles, i havent seen this! Maybe 1 in 10, but thats about it. It all depends on your rifle and how well it was put together. Things such as action/barrel alignment, bolt lug recesses not being square AND in full contact will do strange things to your cases.

    In every one of my custom barreled rifles, neck sizing shrinks groups period!

    Every rifle has what it likes, and a reloader/shooters job is to find and identify what works best. Wheter its full length sizing, or neck sizing, seating the bullet near the lands,
    Or .150" away, you have to find the sweet spot.

    The better a rifle is made, normally the easier it is to find a great load.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  8. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    What happens if you bump the shoulders back about .005 and then shoot them and neck size. Betcha they'll chamber. They were pretty close out of spec when new I'd bet.
     
  9. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    I just ran into the same scenario with a Rem 700 chambered in 6mm Rem / 244. It was all once fired Federal brass, but to be honest, I really wasn't surprised as I've experienced this more than once over the years.

    GS
     
  10. Innovative

    Innovative Member

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    Chambers all vary, and some chambers vary a whole lot more than others. I recommend FL resizing - always. If you FL resize accurately, your handloads will ALWAYS chamber with no resistance. You should never be able to "feel" your bolt close on a round . . . . not even a little bit.

    It doesn't make any difference if your cases are once fired or fired 20 times. There is virtually no benefit to neck sizing. Ask any winning benchrest shooter. If your neck sized handloads seem to shoot better than FL sized case, it's either a coincidence, or you're not setting your FL die height correctly.
     
  11. ironworkerwill

    ironworkerwill Member

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    Hangfire stated his neighbor has a Lee classic press with neck size die. If that's what he has, would that be a benefit to neck sizing?
     
  12. fguffey

    fguffey Member

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    #4
    hang fire
    Member

    Join Date: January 8, 2012
    Posts: 809 This was once fired only, was not from repetitive neck sizing reloads.

    As Ironworkerwill stated, it does appear to me also that the HS is off.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hang fire, “HS is off”? I have the hammer-in and hammer-out dies, some neck size as you mentioned with the Lee. When hammering? there is a chance the case can upset/shorten, when this happens the case increases in diameter.

    30/06 FL die to body size a 270 Winchester case, before I purchased a body die I would use the 30/06 FL die to body size the 270 Winchester, I would also increase the gap between the die and shell holder to body size 280 Remington cases etc., etc.. then there is the 8mm06 FL die for the 30/06 and the 338/06 for the 8mm06. Not a problem? but in my opinion the technique is the beginning of a bad habit because of the dreaded do-nut. The length of the chamber should be know to the reloader. Length of the chamber as in from the shoulder/datum of the chamber to the bolt face should be know to the reloader.

    “HS is off” Your neighbor used “Brass is once fired Remington, which was originally chambered and shot only in his 700 with no problems”, again, I suggest saving one round of ammo for reference, all the rounds in the original box of 20 chambered and fired, as you said “with no problem”. All 20 rounds in the original box of 20 were minimum length/full length sized, all the reloader can do is restore the case to minimum length/full length sized. For chambers that are ‘OFF?’ there are methods and techniques for off setting the length of the chamber from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face with the length of the case. That means adjusting the die off the shell holder to avoid minimum length/full length sizing.

    When you full length sized the case to minimum length with the 30/06 FL die there was a portion of the shoulder/neck juncture that did not get sized, meaning there should have been the makings of a do-nut at the juncture.
    When the 270 neck is sized it fits perfectly into the neck of a 30/06 case meaning the difference between the outside diameter of the 270 neck and the inside diameter of the 30/06 neck is .032” (+/- very few). Not accurate, only an indicator, the do-nut could indicate the difference between neck sizing and full length sizing. I know, that is a stretch, when it comes to reloading there is not much I do not have, to make up for what I do not have there is improv..

    F. Guffey
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  13. fguffey

    fguffey Member

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    Yesterday, 09:15 PM #10
    Innovative
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    Posts: 259 Chambers all vary, and some chambers vary a whole lot more than others. I recommend FL resizing - always. If you FL resize accurately, your handloads will ALWAYS chamber with no resistance. You should never be able to "feel" your bolt close on a round . . . . not even a little bit.

    It doesn't make any difference if your cases are once fired or fired 20 times. There is virtually no benefit to neck sizing. Ask any winning benchrest shooter. If your neck sized handloads seem to shoot better than FL sized case, it's either a coincidence, or you're not setting your FL die height correctly.
    __________________

    “It doesn't make any difference if your cases are once fired or fired 20 times” I will assume I have the luxury of disagreeing, a case that has been fired 20 times will have more resistance to being sized.

    “There is virtually no benefit to neck sizing. Ask any winning benchrest shooter. If your neck sized handloads seem to shoot better than FL sized case, it's either a coincidence, or you're not setting your FL die height correctly” Bart B. has the Infatuation with bench resters, in my opinion, do it like a bench a rester is the wrong standard/example. The rifle they shoot is not the same rifle shot by ‘almost’ all posters on this forum, I have chambers I can not form cases for, some require firing, there is a difference between firing and formed, never described as ‘time as a factor’ but, I have loads for wildcats that are used to form cases to a chamber, the same load after forming is at or above maximum load, the difference? TIME.

    Short chambers: I suggest the reloader know the length of the chamber from the shoulder/datum to the to the bolt face, I suggest the reloader understand minimum length/full length sizing, a bench rester with a bench rester rifle when full length sizing will have a minimum length sized case that fits a minimum length chamber, not a chamber that is go-gage length+ with a minimum length case from the shoulder of the case back the head of the case.

    “If you FL resize accurately, your handloads will ALWAYS chamber with no resistance. You should never be able to "feel" your bolt close on a round . . . . not even a little bit”
    Again, I take two rifles to the range, both chambered to 300 Winchester Mag, both shooting the same ammo, one shoots one hole groups, the other shoots patterns. A friend, a very disciplined reloader suggested finding a load that the rifle liked, I agreed, that rifle was like some people I know, it not only choose to not like everthing we tried, it did not like itself, it was sent back to Winchester, we had words.

    F. Guffey
     
  14. James2

    James2 Member

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    Full length size those brass. Problem will go away. I have seen the same thing when neck sizing only. It is enough of a frustration for me, since I hunt and hate it when hunting and one won't chamber, that I always full length size. Maybe the brass won't last quite as long, but I really don't care about that as long as they work reliably.
     
  15. Dthunter

    Dthunter Member

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    Do what ever works for you. As for me, neck sizing has "never caused me problems". But I am very particular About My loads. I know they all function properly well in advance to hunting.
     
  16. hentown

    hentown Member

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    I've used the Lee Collet die to neck size several thousand rounds of .223s and .243s for my Remmy 700 bolt rifles. Never had any problems. The OP is doing something wrong.
     
  17. docsleepy

    docsleepy Member

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    You might try taking the fired rounds and before you do anything else, slip them in his chamber and close the bolt That will size them enough so that they will fit. Any rifle bolt should be able to size empty brass.

    They can still be a bit tight but they will have to fit after you do that.
     
  18. BigN

    BigN Member

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    I had this problem once upon a time. Several different calibers wouldn't fit into the same bolt gun after neck sizing only. I switched those dies to full length and never had the problem again.
     
  19. hang fire

    hang fire Member

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    Neighbor has the Lee Classic (whackem impact) reloader, not the press.
     
  20. hang fire

    hang fire Member

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    The OP is doing nothing wrong, it is my neighbor with the problem, not I.
     
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