Need 44 mag using h110 advice

[flipajig]

Another thought is look at your load datta and see what the test componets were.
(IE) the barrel leanth and type of gun used. I dont use H110 so im not familuar with using the powder I use 2400 and the powder charges are different for the contender to the revalver data and the same for the carbine data. I have all 3 a super 14 contender,7 1/2 in blackhawk and a M94 in 44 mag. I shoot hard cast and Nosler JHP In the contender and BH so you have to pay attetion to your load datta for all 3..

 

[buck460XVR]

H110 gives me the best accuracy of any powder outta my PC M629. It also likes a firm roll crimp. I run 23 grains for targets and 23.5 for hunting with a 240 jacketed. I have no high pressure signs and recoil and bullet speed are similar to factory WWB 240 JSPs. Have you tried factory ammo? Is there any other signs of high pressure other that sticky extraction?

i called hodgdon and the person i spoke to recommended NOT using a heavy crimp and 21 grains of h110.

....this surprises me cause all info I have ever read from any manual, strongly recommends a heavy roll crimp for H110/W296, not only for bullet movement under recoil, but for complete ignition.

 

[NCsmitty]

profman, I've been giving your issue some more thought, and I have a 10" TC Contender myself, in 357 Maximum, and I shoot the heavier 180gr single shot pistol bullet over 22gr of Rel-7 and that load will give me some sticky cases occasionally. The Max load, with that powder is rated at 25gr, but I have not tried anything over the tested 22gr because it is very accurate. I have NOT chronographed that load.

With that in mind, it's possible that the Contenders with the closed breech may be more sensitive to the higher doses of powder listed, compared to revolvers which essentially bleed off pressure at the cylinder gap. And you are dealing with 14" of barrel to build up pressures.
It's probably a silly theory, but it may be a plausible explanation.

I do not use a crimp with the Rel-7 in the Contender and when I had my 44 Mag revolver, I used Alliant 2400 powder and normal crimps. I never cared that much for H110 and only use it in my heavy 410 shotshells.
I know when using H110, you're dealing with a powder with some idiosyncrasies.


NCsmitty

 

[Gryffydd]

The only reloads I've ever had totally fail on me were my first 6 loads in .45 Colt using H110.
My mistakes:
1. Too light of charge.
2. Regular LP primer.
I corrected those two, and increased the crimp *slightly*. Bingo, fantastic loads. Now for any given bullet weight I usually just load it to exactly 1 gr shy of max and I get great results every time from 250gr up to 335gr.

 

[profman]

thanks for all the comments.

i am going to load up another twenty rounds.

five rounds each using 23 and 23.5 grains of h110 and change the case to federals and winchester keeping the 240 gr winchester jacketed hollow point and winchester large primer and a light crimp using my standard rcbs seater crimper die.

will do the same for another five rounds each using the same seater die and crimp as heavy as i can.

this will test a few situations. that remington cases may not that good in 44 magnum and the crimp may or may not be the causing the pressure spike.

will be shooting them in a couple of weeks and will report results.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I see nothing wrong with using H110/W296 for Magnum rounds. I don't know why everyone is telling him not to use H110. If you're looking for high velocities and good accuracy H110/W296 is the powder especially in the .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. As long as you don't download those powders and use a Magnum primer you are fine.

 

[counterclockwise]

Finicky is the word when one grain difference of H110 will take you from 28,000 psi to 36,000 psi. Here is the warning from Hodgdon:

" H110 and Winchester 296 loads should not be reduced more than 3%.

Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

So all that means is be careful when you reload which you should do no matter what powder you are using. I see no reason to pass on a good powder because if you make a mistake it will possible injure you. Like I said, that's true with all powders. I know there is less room for error with W296/H110 than others but I still use it when it's the best choice.

 

[Walkalong]

ArchAngelCD is right, nothing wrong with using H110 in magnums following the load books recipe's. Just don't try to download it as it was not meant for, nor is it good for, that. Simple enough.

 

[alde]

I have been using 23.5 grains of H110 and 240 grain XTP's in my 1894 Marlin with great success. They are very accurate and there are no signs of overpressure at all. When I fire the same loads in my 5" 629-3 Classic the cases stick in the chambers. They otherwise feel like factory 240 grain loads. I have not tried them in my 629-6 yet. It's only a 3" barrel and I'm not relly looking forward to shooting these loads in it. To add to the knowledge base I will try some in it this weekend and report back. BTW, I was also using Remington cases.

 

[profman]

i reloaded 10 shells each with 22.5gr and 23 gr h110 in both remington and federal cases using winchester lp primers and 240gr hollow points. for five of each set, i used the lee factory crimp die and for the other five, used the rcbs seater crimp. what i had was four sets of five cartridges, two sets using the lee fcd and two sets standard seater crimp, and one set each using remington and non-remington cartridges.

i also had my normal loads of 13gr blue dot and 16.2gr blue dot. shot a string of three of the 13gr blue dot and it produced a group of a little over 1 inch at 25 yards. cartridges ejected very easily.

shot the remingtion and federal 22.5gr h110 crimped with lee fcd and both sets were sticky coming out of the barrel.

shot the remington and federal 23gr h110 using rcbs seater die crimp and both ejected easily.

this seems to indicate that NOT crimping really tight or NOT using the Lee FCD seems to have the effect on my thompson. also seems to show that federal or remington does not have major effect on pressure. i will have to try to set up some loads with various crimps to try to narrow this down. not sure how to explain that my blue dot loads shoot well using the lee fcd.

none of the sets were able to group well. i got two sets of groups of two and three holes. the best was a group of four holes about 1.5 inches with a flyer about 1.5 away. now that i know that 22.5gr - 23gr h110 and maybe higher is good, i can try to find an accurate load.

comments?

 

[Gryffydd]

I don't see where you described the results of the 23gr loads using the FCD. Looking at the rest of your commentary I'd guess they stuck as well.

One thing I've noticed in loading my .45 Colt using the FCD is that with too much crimp, almost any load seems a little "sticky" coming out of the chamber. It almost seems to be not the whole case sticking but rather just the tip of the wall due to the way it has "folded" outwards. I'm going to do some measuring on some of my fired brass when I get home...
I also just picked up a Redding profile crimp die. So we'll see if that changes things.

 

[alde]

Great info profman. I will try loading some with the RCBS crimp die as well. I have been using the Lee FCD with the same load you are using with the same results in my 629.

 

[profman]

---I don't see where you described the results of the 23gr loads using the FCD. Looking at the rest of your commentary I'd guess they stuck as well. ----

i did not load any 23gr h110 with the lee fcd. this load was to see if any difference between remington and non-remington cases and NOT using the fcd. these did not stick. however, neither did they group well. not sure at this point if i should continue increasing or decreasing the powder by .2 grains.

 

[Gryffydd]

Ah gotcha...I read that as the FCD for 5 of each set being 5 of the 10 with 22.5 and 5 of the 10 with 23gr.
Given that it's Hodgdon's powder, I'd go with Hodgdon's data and increase (slowly) up to their 24gr max. At 24gr they show only 36kpsi. I wouldn't be surprised if the sticking has more to do with the crimps than the pressure, and in general accuracy with H110 improves as the charges increase. (To a point!) They show 23gr as the minimum!

 

[alde]

I have a bit of data to add.

I had the same problem with my 240 grain XTPs using 23.5 grains of H110 and WLP primers. The cases stuck in my 629-3 Classic and the primers looked a bit flattened out. I was using a Lee FCD on these rounds with once fired Remington shells.

I loaded up the same loads with the same shells except now they have been fired 3 times. Only difference is I did away with the FCD and just used an RCBS roll crimp. The problem went away. The empty shells just fell out of the cylinder and the primers looked just like they do when I use 8.5 grains of Unique. They were more accurate to boot. Looks like problem solved.

BTW I have the Hornady 7th addition in front of me. The charge ranges from 20.7 to 24.8. Please verify these numbers before using them. I only list them for reference.

 

[profman]

CAUTION: The following post are my results using my gun and components and may include loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

took a while to get back to the range with new loads.

here are my new test loads and results at 25 yards using h110, winchester lpp and 240 gr jacketed hollow soft point, rcbs seater and crimp:

winchester brass and 23.0 gr h110 - group size 2.5 inches.
winchester brass and 23.5 gr h110 - group size 2.0 inches.
winchester brass and 23.7 gr h110 - group size .8 inches.

every round was pretty easy case ejection with no pressure signs.

additional information leading up to the above results.

federal brass and 23.0 gr h110 - group size 2.5 inches.
federal brass and 23.5 gr h110 - group size 2.0 inches.
federal brass and 23.7 gr h110 - group size 0.75 inches


remington brass and 23.0 gr h110 - group size 2.5 inches.
remington brass and 23.5 gr h110 - group size 2.2 inches.
remington brass and 23.7 gr h110 - group size 0.8 inches.

i will continue to check the loads around 23.5 to 24.0 (listed hornady max) gr h110. while not conclusive, for my gun, the main issue was not the case, not the primer that was causing what looked like pressure signs in a gun that should take MORE pressure than 'normal' 44 magnum guns. remember that this is a single shot contender that is designed to handle 'hot' loads. the major change was NOT to use the Lee Factory Crimp die, and only slightly crimp using the rcbs bullet seater. it also didnt seem to matter which case i used, because the good groups all came in around the same powder load. for me, these groups look like a good hunting load.

by the way, i previously posted that i was using blue dot and was not happy with my load. i reloaded batches using blue dot and found that my gun does not like heavy blue dot loads. it seems medium loads work best with the best groups using 13.0 gr blue dot. again, these did not use the Lee Factory crimp die.

if i get some time, will try to do test some loads using the LFCD versus not using it and post the results.