Need 6.5x55 bullet recommendation

[Float Pilot]

Wow,,, Something it wrong..... Usually black necks means the pressure is low and the gases are not being sealed by case mouth expansion...

1. Did you single load each round or where the other rounds in the magazine while firing?

2. Is your brass all trimmed to the correct and same length?

3. How much neck tension is gripping the bullet sides with your loads?

4. Did you use any crimp of just neck tension?

5. Have you super double-checked to make sure that you do not have something built up (like powder residue or a piece of jacketing) at the far end of your chamber or in the rifling leade?

Around here a head-space check is 10 bucks and 5 minutes.

6. Did you make sure you did not bump your case shoulders too far back? That will make the gun act like it has ahead-spacing problem.

 

[Xeon64]

Float Point, I loaded each round one at a time. The brass was size and trimmed to 2.165. I do not have away of measuring neck tension. I have a single stage LEE press with a Lee seating die. I followed the video on LEE's sight on how to use the seating die. There was no crimp just neck tension. I did not check for a jacket in the barell and there did not appear to be a powder build up. I measured the should and it all appeared to be right.

 

[Float Pilot]

WOW AGAIN...

An interesting mystery...

It is like something is changing as you continue to shoot...

I asked about the rounds in the magazine because sometimes a poorly sized expander can leave the necks too big and the recoil from other rounds being fired pushes the bullets into the case while they are in the magazine.
But you are not magazine loading...

If all your cases are the same,,,you only have a couple things are changing,,, the chamber is becoming warmer (hotter) and you have some powder and gas blowing back into the area of the chamber next to the case mouth...

Too bad you do not live around here, this would be fun to figure out...

 

[Xeon64]

Yeah I am pulling all of my bullets soon and measuring the powder charge again. Also I am going to slug my barrel and I might make a sulfur cast of my chamber. Then I will reload using 40grains of RL-22 instead of 42 grains. I did not want to go with 40 grains in the beginning because I am only going to get about 2100 FPS out of a 23" Barrel.

 

[Coltdriver]

The first sign of excessive headspace is a flattened primer. Have your smith check that.

 

[Xeon64]

But if I had excessive head spacing wouldn't that have showed up with commercial and military ammo?

 

[Coltdriver]

If you have a micrometer measure and compare your reloaded brass against the commercial and military stuff.

The cartridge headspaces on the shoulder. As FloatPilot points out you may have bumped the shoulder back enough to make your reloads just loose enough.

You can get a headspace measurement tool that indexes on the shoulder. I have never used one but Hornady has them. RCBS makes one too.

Keep us posted on what you find out.

 

[Xeon64]

Will do. I have a newborn baby so loading time is limited.

 

[Float Pilot]

What type of brass are you using?

For accuracy loads I often just do a neck resizing...

 

[Xeon64]

The brass is once shot Hornady and I am using a Lee Full Length resizer. I do not have a neck resizer. Attached is a photo of my two presses. One for resize, depriming, and seating and the other for priming only with a Lee Ram Prime. Also attached is a photo of one of my reloads.

 

[Float Pilot]

OH, I see your problem,,,,,,
Your loading bench is far too clean and not cluttered up....

You can semi-neck size with a full length die. Just start slow and in little increments and you can see the neck area being resized.... keep adjusting until the you stop just a hair short of having the entire neck squeezed back down.

I only use old single stag presses that I bought back around 1971... I have two loading benches for when hand-loading company comes over...

You need to take one of your factory rounds and measure where the shoulder starts and stops. Then compare that to one of your hand-loads and also against one of your fired cases.

 

[Xeon64]

Ha. The clutter is coming. I just built this bench and started to reload. Finding reloading supplies is difficult right now with all that is going on in Washington.

I measure the factor rounds before they were shot and they were not the same measurement that the Lyman and Nosler book say they should be. The unshot factor cases from neck to base were shorter than 2.165. Also when I measure the brass after being shot it is almost to the reloading manual specs. The shot brass measures between 2.164 - 2.171. I resize the neck is at 2.170. Then I use a case trimmer and get it down to the 2.165 that manual list as spec. If I have time to night I will get better measurements.

 

[Xeon64]

Alright. Here are my measurements. The only difference between my reloads and the factory are the case length and OAL. But my case is spec with the reloading manuals.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

By way of process of elimnation the only variables that differ between your loads and factory loads that shoot fine are the powder charge and the AOL. The powder charge is below max spec so that leaves the AOL.

Take an unprimed case and patially neck size by leaving the die scewed out. The purpose of which is to allow the neck to take a bullet but with minimum neck tension. Blacken the bullet with a sharpie to make sure that it actually touches the lands on chambering. Insert a bullet into the neck and chamber the unprimed dummy round. Remove and measure the AOL. Pull the bullet and do this twice again. Average out the three to give you seated on the lands measurement.

Now compare this against your loaded rounds to see if indeed you are seating off the lands. If not reseat starting at the Measured chambered AOL - 0.04". Remember that when developing loads always start off the lands, you can tweak the seating depth later. The closer you get to the lands to more the pressure increases for the same given powder charge.

In the ansence of a suitable gause you will need to redo this exercise for bullets type you load as the shape of the ogive changes from bullet to bullet. Extreme example, a round nose vs. a spitzer point.

You are currently 0.172" (4.37mm) over the factory spec which is massive. Many 6.5mm chambers were cut long to take the 160gr. bullets but I think you are seating right into the lands. Did you feel undue pressure when camming the bolt over with your reloads?

Good luck lets us know how close to the lands you actually loaded.

 

[Xeon64]

Thanks Andrew. I did do exactly what you said before reloading. I made a dummy round and blackened with a sharpie. For me to touch the lans the bullet is almost out of the case. So I seated the bullet between the OAL length of Mil ammo and maximum OAL. That came out to 3.1. At 3.1 Oal I have no problem cycling a round nor do I feel any pressure when closing the bolt. Also there are no lans marks on the bullet . I am starting to wonder if I just accidentally overloaded a charge. I do not use a powder drop. I measure each load by hand.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Hi again,

I have the 5-0-5 scale and have been known to inadvertantly bump the weights with out noticing and have needed to go back and re-weigh until I find the point at which it changed and then redo the hard work.

Cheers

 

[Float Pilot]

On a real Swedish Mauser you cannot get a 140 grain boat-tail loaded long enough to touch the rifling. They have a very long throat.

Does your bolt serial number match your receiver serial number......???

 

[Andrew Leigh]

By "real" Float Pilot I assume you mean original and earlier models?

I have a CZ550 and the 140gr. SGK reaches the lands, never tried a 160gr. and probably won't as that weight belongs in my 30-06. Would be curious whether a 160gr. would chamber in my rifle!

 

[Float Pilot]

A CZ 550 is Czech, not Swedish...
ergo I am speaking about the Swedish Mausers ( m/94, m/96 and m/38 ) Even the Husqvarna sporting rifles in 6.5x55mm have a super long throat.

The 160 grain Round Nose bullets (and the 156 grain Norma's) are actually shorter than many if the lighter boat-tails.

I have a CG-63 target Rifle that has a Schultz and Larsen 1 in 9 inch twist barrel . ( The m/94's m/96s and m/38s all had a 1 in 200mm twist rate and the regular issue CG-63 had a 1 in 220mm twist rate)
My 1 in 9 twist CG-63 will not stabilize the 142 grain Sierra Boat-Tail bullets. But it will shoot the shorter 160 grain round nose bullets just fine.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

A CZ 550 is Czech, not Swedish...
ergo I am speaking about the Swedish Mausers ( m/94, m/96 and m/38 ) Even the Husqvarna sporting rifles in 6.5x55mm have a super long throat.

The 160 grain Round Nose bullets (and the 156 grain Norma's) are actually shorter than many if the lighter boat-tails.

I have a CG-63 target Rifle that has a Schultz and Larsen 1 in 9 inch twist barrel . ( The m/94's m/96s and m/38s all had a 1 in 200mm twist rate and the regular issue CG-63 had a 1 in 220mm twist rate)
My 1 in 9 twist CG-63 will not stabilize the 142 grain Sierra Boat-Tail bullets. But it will shoot the shorter 160 grain round nose bullets just fine.

Hi, thanks for the reply.

OK so I am learning here. When I bought the rifle I assumed that as the calibre was a "Swedish Mauser", that the chamber, leade etc. would have been cut to the old specification. So although technically the same in terms of the physical round dimensions, the rest is not. That will probably explain the 1:9 twist rather than the 1:8.

I would have bitterly dissapointed if I wanted to chase 160gr. bullets down the barrel. As it stands the max I load is 140gr. SGK which give 0.6MOA so I think that will be fine.

Is that about the way you see it as well Float Pilot?

Thanks
Andrew

 

[Float Pilot]

What time is it in Jo-Burg ? It is midnight here.... I was just finishing some 18 year old Scotch with a splash of Drambuie mixed into it.... Before bed...

Your 1 in 9 twist might shoot the 156 to 160 grain bullets just fine. They are only 1.262 inches long. They work well on larger game. The Hornady 160 grain has always been affordable, But I am not sure they are still making them....
The Norma 156 grain round nose is a super tough bullet but rather costly.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Thanks,

it is 11:10, bit early for a good 18yr scotch. We finish work today at 14:00. Then going to load up some very tame 120's in the 6.5. Tomorrow take my grandbuddies on their first shoot. A friend is taking his .22 and his .243 so we are going to steadily move them up through the calibre's through to 6.5 if possible as the rifle is purpose bought for them to grow into. The are 9, 13 and 15. Hope the little guy copes as he is very slight but a toughie. I am actually quiet excited.

Well that little cocktail should see you sleeping well, have a great weekend and goodnight.

 

[Float Pilot]

I bride of many seasons uses a m/94 Swedish Carbine when she competes in Mauser Matches. I loaded some moderate loads using 85 grain 6.5mm Bullets. They have very little recoil. I have used the same loads with a couple of our grand-kids and they seem to like it...
I can not find the load data right now,,, I am not sure if it is because of my new computer or the Scotch....

Speaking of Swedes in Afrika Sud.....

http://www.angloboerwar.com/unit-information/boer-units/1955-scandinavian-corps?start=1

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Nice link thanks for posting. Was not aware that the site existed.

 

[Xeon64]

Deer Season just ended and I can get back on the computer. @Float Pilot, my Mauser has all matching serial numbers. This week end I shot my Mauser again. Same load as previously mentioned 42 grains of RL-22 with a 140 grain Nosler. No primer blows this time. I fired two shots. One the primer was flat. The other the primer was flat and there was a metal bur around the dent the firing pin made on the primer and the bolt was hard to open. Still signs of excessive pressure. I pulled the bullets on my remaining rounds and all had a 42 grain powder charge. My question is this. I am using CCI BR primers. The BR stands for Bench Rest. I am wonder if the primers are what is causing the excessive pressure. I am going to bump down to 40 grains of RL-22 and see.