Need advice regarding starting a small gunsmithing operation

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grampajack

grampajack

AR Junkie
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Mar 31, 2016
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I've been building uppers locally for a while now, and I would like to expand it into a viable business. I have a partner to take care of the logistical end, and I would like to get an employee to do the simple labor. This will depend entirely on doing a large volume to make it viable.

I realize most people here already build their own ARs, but there are plenty of people who either don't have the tools or simply don't want to hassle with it. I can also do things most home builders cannot, like pin gas blocks and dimple barrels, as well as permanently attach muzzle devices. In other words, I can assist the home builder by prepping their parts for assembly, that way all they have to do is pop the pin in with no milling or expensive jigs required.

What I'm having trouble with is breaking into other states. I don't know how to advertise. I learned how to build an ecommerce site so I've got that end of it taken care of. Advertising is expensive, though, so I'm afraid to just start throwing money at it.

ETA: I know the demand is there. I know a gunsmith who does nothing but put together uppers, and he actually has to turn away work occasionally. And that's just in his little market. Multiply that by the entire country and you can see where I'm going with this.
 
There is a shop not too far from me that does this, along with building and selling complete AR's. They do a pretty good business. They order barrels a hundred at a time.

I had them get an 18" Wilson Match barrel. It has a 12" railed fore end. Picked the extended charging handle and fore end out of their inventory.

Accurate but still short enough for HD. I helped assemble it.

If possible, I'd try to get the other guys overflow business. Also, I'd go to every gun show I could. Have a variety of parts and build on site.

You could try to contact shops in the area to sell thru them. I am pretty good friends with the owner of the largest LGS in this area. Even at a low price he was not interested. He gets flooded with people wanting to sell them.

Problem right now is that the AR market is so flooded and so cheap that it's gonna be tough getting started.
 
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I know the demand is there, it's just tapping into it. It's true that the market is flooded for complete rifles and uppers, but if you look around there aren't that many people building uppers from customer parts. Most of the operations I've been able to find charge a pretty penny and still require that you buy parts from them, not to mention they don't have basic machine capabilities, so they can't do anything the home builder can't do. I could probably do a good business just pinning gas blocks alone. It's just a matter of people finding out I'm there.

One thing I need to get away from is face to face business. There's just too much time involved. The only way this could become a viable business is if it's all mail order and nationwide.
 
Maybe look into the cost of placing an ad in the NRA magazine and buy advertising on websites like this one . Do a few youtube video's showing your work in progress , with links for your service .
 
red rick said:
Maybe look into the cost of placing an ad in the NRA magazine and buy advertising on websites like this one . Do a few youtube video's showing your work in progress , with links for your service .
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That's a good idea. I desperately need a social media expert. I could never make heads or tails of facebook, twitter, and youtube.
 
grampajack said:
I've been building uppers locally for a while now, and I would like to expand it into a viable business. I have a partner to take care of the logistical end, and I would like to get an employee to do the simple labor. This will depend entirely on doing a large volume to make it viable.

I realize most people here already build their own ARs, but there are plenty of people who either don't have the tools or simply don't want to hassle with it. I can also do things most home builders cannot, like pin gas blocks and dimple barrels, as well as permanently attach muzzle devices. In other words, I can assist the home builder by prepping their parts for assembly, that way all they have to do is pop the pin in with no milling or expensive jigs required.

What I'm having trouble with is breaking into other states. I don't know how to advertise. I learned how to build an ecommerce site so I've got that end of it taken care of. Advertising is expensive, though, so I'm afraid to just start throwing money at it.

ETA: I know the demand is there. I know a gunsmith who does nothing but put together uppers, and he actually has to turn away work occasionally. And that's just in his little market. Multiply that by the entire country and you can see where I'm going with this.
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Be advised - Assembling lowers constitutes "manufacture" in the eyes of the ATF, and therefore requires a 07 FFL.

A regular gunsmith license is insufficient.
 
if your doing upper work, things like taper pinning FSB's and welding brakes, add a lathe, focus on barrel turning, and specialty profiles. Maybe bulk order some A1, and A2 uppers, because you need to seperate yourself from the dozens of "HBAR, Flattop" sources. Parkerizing is cheap, easy, and requires very little effort to get excellant results. Zink, and Manganese options both. Maybe add honing 870 barrels, and work up to more difficult, more FFL type stuff like action bedding and squaring if you get good results.
 
mjsdwash said:
if your doing upper work, things like taper pinning FSB's and welding brakes, add a lathe, focus on barrel turning, and specialty profiles. Maybe bulk order some A1, and A2 uppers, because you need to seperate yourself from the dozens of "HBAR, Flattop" sources. Parkerizing is cheap, easy, and requires very little effort to get excellant results. Zink, and Manganese options both. Maybe add honing 870 barrels, and work up to more difficult, more FFL type stuff like action bedding and squaring if you get good results.
Click to expand...

That's really the kind of thing I'm trying to move away from. It's just too time consuming, meaning very low profit margins. The other problem is I can't use cheap labor to do that kind of thing, and what I'm really trying to accomplish is hiring employees to do most of the hands on work. The pinning and whatnot I can have a few stations set up to where the employees would just have to clamp the barrel in a vise and pull a handle, so that's not a big deal. Lathe work would be a bridge too far I believe. Basically my business model relies on getting people their upper built fast, like one day turnaround, and for a third to half the cost of tools.
 
You might not want to tell everyone that you want to hire cheap labor and not do the work yourself . That sounds like a recipe for a lot of quality control and headache to me and would make me not want to use your service , especially as a new operation .
 
red rick said:
You might not want to tell everyone that you want to hire cheap labor and not do the work yourself . That sounds like a recipe for a lot of quality control and headache to me and would make me not want to use your service , especially as a new operation .
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Well, that's far down the road. As of right now, and for the foreseeable future, it's me turning the wrenches in my spare time. Obviously I would train the people well, but let's face it, building an AR upper isn't skilled labor. I would have it be an assembly line, plus several milling stations already tooled up for specific journal sizes with jigs in place to make it foolproof. I'm to the point now where I can put together an upper in about 15-20 minutes, and that's not even hoofing it. With a few employees working an assembly line I could be turning them out quick, and that would allow me to reduce cost. I would probably always work on the match grade builds, or at some point have a senior employee take it over. But even that's not rocket science. It just takes patience. I might even scrap that altogether, as it's time consuming, the vast majority of people aren't in the market for it, and I've always been highly skeptical whether it really makes any discernible difference or not. Like I said, I'm wanting to move away from that kind of stuff.
 
Word of mouth referrals (including those posted in forums) are your very best advertising.

You better count on spending a lot of time supervising those you hire. The best workers are going to be working for themselves, not someone else. And you are going to be dealing with complaints about not hiring women, or men, or a particular ethnic minority, setting up retirement plans... It's not going to be just cashing checks coming in and writing salary checks for your employees.

Another vote here for starting small and growing as the demand increases. If you are able to generate more demand than you can handle efficiently, the negative reviews are going to kill you.
 
J-Bar said:
Word of mouth referrals (including those posted in forums) are your very best advertising.

You better count on spending a lot of time supervising those you hire. The best workers are going to be working for themselves, not someone else. And you are going to be dealing with complaints about not hiring women, or men, or a particular ethnic minority, setting up retirement plans... It's not going to be just cashing checks coming in and writing salary checks for your employees.

Another vote here for starting small and growing as the demand increases. If you are able to generate more demand than you can handle efficiently, the negative reviews are going to kill you.
Click to expand...

Oh absolutely. I'm not looking to go out and hire 10 people tomorrow, or launch some huge ad campaign. I just need to start moving away from local word of mouth and start moving towards a national, mail order customer base.
 
Plus one for youtube with high production values.

Think this - Iphone 6 Plus screen replacement

Its not the best example (I've seen better, that was just a quick youtube search), but it gives you a chance to show why they should pay you, the quality of your work, it makes them skeptical of pulling off the job themselves, shows off tools that cost more than having it done and improves your reputability and reputation. And those that decide to follow your video tutorial instead of pay yoy weren't going to pay you anyway so nothing lost (I bet most of the people on this site would rather pay to do it themselves than pay for someone to do it for them). Add a loyalty program (6th upper assembly free). Add a referral program (get x comission per referral on labor).

And most important, prices should be readily available on your website. Fees should be averages and standarized. Make it so a client can generate a quote via drop down menus is less than 20 minutes and directly print a shipping label to ship the parts. If I have to call for a quote, you won't be getting my business. Plus, time answering phones and emails is time that could have been spent doing actual work.

Like you said, it's all about streamlining the process.

I'm not sure if this business would be successful (I'm my own gunsmith, like many others), but it certainly won't work if not done in line with what today's clients want.
 
You need to plan for what happens when a rifle gets returned with a fault. How a company deals with that (and how fast) is going to determine whether you sink or swim in the first few years of your business.
 
Start by searching here and every other firearms forum for the 'I want to open a gun shop' posts.
Secondly, you need to consider all or most of the following. What kind of paid gunsmithing experience do you have? What kind of formal training and certificates do you have? What kind of experience do you have running a business? Have you looked into the cost of liability insurance? Do you have the cash to pay for parts, tooling, etc, etc., on a COD basis? (New businesses do not get credit terms.) Got a written business plan? You have an OK/Piedmont business licence?
"... a national, mail order customer base..." Who and how many competitors are there?
"...With a few employees..." Do you know what it costs to have employees in OK?
"...I know the demand is there..." What makes you say that?
"...isn't skilled labor..." Suggest you rethink that idea.
 
Get a table at a gun show. You can assemble on the spot, plus show the work you have done.

Low cost plus you get your name out.
 
If all you are doing is manufacturing AR "uppers" then no FFL is required, but ITAR registration is. Currently $2250 per year. From the looks of your website you are doing some machining......and that brings you under ITAR.

If you assemble complete AR's you need an 07FFL in addition to ITAR registration.
 
dogtown tom said:
If all you are doing is manufacturing AR "uppers" then no FFL is required, but ITAR registration is. Currently $2250 per year. From the looks of your website you are doing some machining......and that brings you under ITAR.

If you assemble complete AR's you need an 07FFL in addition to ITAR registration.
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Machining resulting in an enhanced capability is the actual terminology, but that only applies to manufacturing. Defense services is the section that covers what I'm doing, and that only applies to foreign non residents. Just to be on the safe side, though, I won't be threading or rechambering any barrels.
 
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