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Need info: Older Italian revolvers

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Texas Moon, Apr 17, 2010.

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  1. Texas Moon

    Texas Moon Member

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    Picked up a couple of used Italian C&B's today.

    Looking for some info on them: Who made them and nipple thread sizes.

    Revolver #1 - 1860 Army pattern. Fluted cylinder.
    Barrel marked Dixie Gun Works -made in Italy - Black Powder Only- 44cal.
    Frame has AH date code - which dates to 1981 I think.
    Some proof marks on barrel and frame.
    This ones in really good shape. Appears to be unfired but definitely handled a lot. Some dings and scratches but overall good condition.

    REVOLVER #2 - Brass framed 1851 Navy pattern.
    Barrel marked Dixie Gun Works - Black powder only - made in Italy - 36cal Navy Model.
    Frame has AF date code - 1980 I think.
    This poor thing isn't in very good shape. It appears to be unfired but has been handled HARD. Cylinder has lots of endplay. Wedge is incorrect. Looks like its been ground down from another type to fit. I think it'll shoot if I can get the correct wedge for it. I'd bet this was somebodies fast draw practice gun.

    Thanks for any info.
     
  2. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    Probably both Pietta based on the DGW provenance; look for the letters FAP in an elongated diamond box by the serial number on the frame or barrel assembly forward of the trigger guard, or perhaps on the barrel under the loading lever.

    If Pietta, nipple threads will likely be metric M6X0.75. Take one to your local hardware and ask them to take a thread gage to it; if they can't or won't, just go to the nuts & bolts area and get the following nuts to thread onto the nipple: M6x0.75, 12x28, or 1/4x28. It will be one of those. Then leave the hardware and find one that can and will check the gage for you.
     
  3. Texas Moon

    Texas Moon Member

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    Edit: The 1860 has some kind of a mark. On the frame by the serial is a small circle with what appears to be a palm tree?

    Broke them down. Poor things haven't seen a drop of oil in 20+ years.
    The bores, chambers, and nipples are perfect new.
    I seriously doubt these things were ever fired. Even the nipples were just snug tight. Everything was just full of lint and dirt. Half way expected a dirt dauber nest to fall out of the works! LOL

    I'll call Dixie on Monday to see if i can get the correct wedge for the '51. If nothing else maybe they will tell me the maker and I can locate a part somewhere else.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2010
  4. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    Ouch. The palm tree logo stands for Palmetto. They are considered the least desirable of the Italian replica makers; their reputation is for poor quality. You'll need to measure the thread pitch on the nipples - I have no idea what thread Palmetto used.
     
  5. zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen Member

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    I have 4 palmetto made guns. Three are excellent quality, good fit and finish, etc. The fourth is a kit gun that I never finished. It is a lower quality item. Brass frame Remmie.

    Some palmetto stuff was quite well made and a few models were made to have the parts interchange with originals.
     
  6. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    Thanks for the information. As usual, there are exceptions to the common perception. Can you help the OP with information about the nipple thread specs?
     
  7. Texas Moon

    Texas Moon Member

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    Talked to Dixie. The lady I spoke with couldn't really help me.
    Thought they were made by Pietta.
    Sending me a nipple to try in the 51.
    We'll see what happens when it gets here.

    The 1860 seems to be a pretty well made piece.

    Sure wished you yahoos hadn't of posted those snubbies. Threw my hacksaw over the back fence to keep the inner Bubba from going crazy.
     
  8. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    The Possible Shop was selling left over Palmetto Remingtons about 1 year ago.
    Maybe they have some info.

    Also there's a nipple manufacturer with an 800 number that you can call to inquire. He makes some of the nipples that Dixie sells.

    1-800-337-1243

    http://blomquistpercussionworks.com/
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
  9. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Member

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    I got tiered of fighting the nipple size problem when I needed a replacement. I bought one of each thread size and keep it in a marked bag as a test nipple. You still need to match up the length of the thread end and the length of the nipple end.
     
  10. Texas Moon

    Texas Moon Member

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    This is why I enjoy this forum.

    The unknown brass framed 51 Navy pattern has been idenitifed by Old Cannonballs thread about his Lyman Navy.

    This one has that same circle with a D GG on the underside of the barrel!
    Armi San Paolo.
    I missed it on first inspection. Its not a very deep mark either. About half of it isn't visible.
    Now I know who made it. When it was made.
    All thats left is to ID the nipple threads. :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2010
  11. Texas Moon

    Texas Moon Member

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    Got a 6mm x 75 nipple to try in the Armi San Paolo/Euroarms '51 brass Navy.
    Screws in like a champ. The new nipple is a bit longer than the originals but the originals may have been battered down over the years.
    Got a new wedge too. It fits very tight but that will loosen with use.
    One small issue with this. With the wedge screw installed the wedge will not come out far enough to allow barrel removal.
    Figure I can do one of two things:
    Leave the wedge screw out or grind the tip of the wedge. Will shoot it without the screw first. Thats the easiest. This piece won't be fired much so it probably won't be an issue.

    Thanks again for the info. :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2010
  12. Texas Moon

    Texas Moon Member

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    Made it to the range this afternoon with these two revolvers.

    The Big Brown Truck of Happiness dropped off a new .36 mold yesterday so casted up some roundballs for the '51.

    I must say it was a lot of fun firing off these old things for the first time.
    The Armi San Paolo 1851 shoots NICE.
    15gr 3Fg w/ lube over ball shoots pretty decent at 40 ft.
    Ran like a top!

    The 1860 Palmetto leaves something to be desired.
    Accuracy was only so-so. Varied the loads some. Still meh.
    The action/trigger pull on this thing is "clunky". Sometimes it get out of index and had to be advanced by hand.
    Trigger pull stinks. I'd guess its up close to 8pound pull.
    Gun did run like a top tho.
    I'm hoping a few cleanings and use will slick it up.
    This one is probably going to get cut into a snubbbie.

    Also shot the Uberti 1860 Army.
    Had a lot of trouble with this gun a few weeks back.
    The only trouble today was when ramming the ball down on a lubed wad, the ball sticks to the ram and keeps coming back out of the chamber.
    When I loaded dry(lube on top of ball) this doesn't happen.
    Guess the chamber gets slicked up with lube and the ball doesn't have enough friction to hold it in place.
    Also used a small round file and removed some of the edge on the lip of the frame by the hammer where the groove starts.
    Spent caps fell off a lot better and no squibs even tho I was using the same powder as before.

    Now I have THREE revo's to clean! :mad:
     
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