need info on a trapdoor springfield

[coosbaycreep]

I'm trying to find out some info on this rifle (which belongs to my uncle and who is likely going to sell it), but am having a tough time finding the info I want.

First off, this is .45-70, correct?

The action seems to function like it should and lock up tight. Would this be safe to shoot with low pressure ammo? Is there any off the shelf smokeless ammo that is safe for trapdoors? (I've read that the remington 405gr is safe, but don't know for sure).

The side of the receiver says "US Springfield 1883" on it, but on the top of the gun it says "model 1873", and according to oldguns.net, the serial number (which is 8340) dates the gun to 1874. So is this some kind of mismatched parts gun or something?

There's no cartouches on the stock, and the cleaning rod is missing. Other than that and some patina, it's in pretty decent shape for being as old as it is. Also, the barrel is about 32" long.

Looking at completed auctions on gunbroker, these don't seem to be selling very good or for very much, and around here, old milsurps sell for even less than they do online. So, what would be a realistic price my uncle could get out of this gun?

thanks

 

[StrawHat]

From the photos, you have a Springfield Single Shot Rifle, caliber 45-70, manufactured by the Springfield Armory in 1883.

... I'm trying to find out some info on this rifle (which belongs to my uncle and who is likely going to sell it), but am having a tough time finding the info I want....

Here is a good site to find out more info on your rifle.

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/

...First off, this is .45-70, correct? ...

Yes, 45-70 or 45 Gov't.

...The action seems to function like it should and lock up tight. Would this be safe to shoot with low pressure ammo? Is there any off the shelf smokeless ammo that is safe for trapdoors? (I've read that the remington 405gr is safe, but don't know for sure)....

Unless it is marked not for trapdoors or similar wording, it is safe for use. If that is the correct serial number, yes, it would have been built in 1874.

...The side of the receiver says "US Springfield 1883" on it, but on the top of the gun it says "model 1873", and according to oldguns.net, the serial number (which is 8340) dates the gun to 1874. So is this some kind of mismatched parts gun or something?...

Without better photos, I cannot see the 1883. If that is the correct serial number, the rifle was built in 1874. If the 1883 is on the lock, it could be the lock was swapped out at the later date. Whether this was done as a field repair, or even later (by Bannerman for example) is not easy to tell.

...There's no cartouches on the stock, and the cleaning rod is missing. Other than that and some patina, it's in pretty decent shape for being as old as it is. Also, the barrel is about 32" long....

The correct barrel length should be 32.6" for a rifle. No carotuches may mean it was refinished at one point OR it could have been a field repiar. Again, not so easy to tell.

...Looking at completed auctions on gunbroker, these don't seem to be selling very good or for very much, and around here, old milsurps sell for even less than they do online. So, what would be a realistic price my uncle could get out of this gun?...

Prices vary by locale. Here is an online dealer. Condition is everything.

http://www.trapdoors.com/

I have an 1873 rifle built in 1878. With the proper loads it shoots like a dream. I load 405 HB cast lead bullets over a full case of black powder. Plenty enough power for everything on this continent.

 

[dprice3844444]

if your going to shoot it,keep it to 405 grain lead factory loads,no highpower loads like you would use in a marlin 1895 or ruger 45/70.action won't handle it.the sights are setup for the factory 45/70 405 grain loads

 

[StrawHat]

Contrary to popular belief, your shoulder will give out before the trapdoor will. It was built very well and with a good deal of thought. The early ones, First and Second Allin conversions are the weaker of the bunch. From about 1868 on, the action was purpose built for the rifle, not merely a conversion of a musket barrel. This made the firearm, stroger and safer.

I do not advocate overloads of any sort but the action is a lot stronger than the oft repeated myths would have you believe.

 

[coosbaycreep]

Thanks for the info.

Turns out my uncle already had low expectations on what it was worth, so I went ahead and bought it from him since it's not everyday I get a chance to buy a 138 year old gun.

Yesterday I bought a box of 405gr remington ammo for it, and put 5 rounds through it. The first shot I didn't even aim as I was holding it as far away from me as possible in case it might blow up or something. I was still flinching the next few rounds, but the last two I hit a water bottle at extremely close range, so I'm pretty happy with it. I'd like to try shooting steel plates with it at 100yds, but when a box of ammo costs almost as much as a tank of gas, and I no longer reload, this won't get shot much.

This probably isn't something I'll keep very long, but I'm glad I got a chance to own and shoot a piece of American history.

 

[StrawHat]

You can still get into reloading fairly inexpensively. I load all my rifle ammunition with a 310 Tong Tool. (Not unlike what was used for the Trapdoor.) The tool, dies, powder, projectiles, primers will probably be less than 3 or 4 boxes of ammo. If you do not intend to shoot much, the 20 cartridges from the first box will last a long time. I no longer need to shoot my rifles a lot. If I get 20 rounds off in a year, that is a lot, so the tong tool is a perfect solution for me. Perhaps it would work for you.

Any of your buddies still reload?

 

[Red October]

I think you'll be happy you got the trapdoor.
I have two 1884 models, and you can find ammo that is safe for them.
The Remington ammo marked "safe for ALL rifles" is fine (avoid ammo marked "safe for MODERN rifles"), and Bitterroot Valley has an offering that uses lead 405gr slugs at pretty near the original spec velocity (Cheaper Than Dirt had it in stock last time I checked). I have fired both types in my 1884s with zero issues. The rifles are heavy enough that recoil is pretty mild.
As previously pointed out, the earlier versions were muzzleloader conversions and weaker, but starting with the 1873 model, they were built for this cartridge. The trapdoor action is generally considered a "weak action", but this is relative to other types. Stick with light to medium loads and you can have a lot of fun with these fine old rifles.
Enjoy!

 

[berettaprofessor]

God I love these guns; unfortunately the only ones I've ever held were a full-length bubba'ed with a carbine stock and a very nice one at Cabela's priced in the $1000 range.

 

[JanetRae]

US Springfield 1873

First let me apologize for posting on your link. I just joined and cannot find the place to "post".
I have a US Springfield 1873, the serial number is 45405. I've been looking all over the net for information on this rifle and thought this might be a good place to search. Any info on this gun would be very welcome
Thank you!

 

[Reloadron]

Trapdoor Collector as was posted by StrawHat is a very good place to start.

Ron