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Need professional parsers

Discussion in 'Legal' started by ilbob, Jun 17, 2009.

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  1. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    What does this mean?

     
  2. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

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    Devices that use compressed air or CO2 or springs to expel a projectile are not firearms.
     
  3. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

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    I'd say it means that .177 caliber air rifles firing BBs at less that 700fps and paintball guns are excluded. Sounds like bb guns producing over 700 fps and any pellet guns are considered firearms.

    I would read it as:
    (1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B‑B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

    Or, in an easier format:
    "Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:
    (1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B‑B gun which either
    expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second
    or
    breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;​

    To be excluded, it needs to be a pneumatic/spring/painball or b-b gun that meets either critieria A (in red) or criteria B (in blue).

    As always, IANAL.
     
  4. cloudedice

    cloudedice Member

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    We can break it into parts:


    A firearm is anything which meets the following criteria, without regard to the name it is given or called by.

    The device is designed to eject some smaller object or group of objects

    By using the force of expanding gas.

    Anything meeting the following criteria is not a "firearm" for the purposes of this section.

    Devices designed using compressed gas, springs or can be otherwise classified as a "paintball marker" or "BB gun" (I would assume pellet gun would also apply)

    As long as it can't eject more than a single projectile, and that projectile is smaller than or equal to 0.18 inches in diameter. Additionally the maximum muzzle velocity can't be equal or less than 700 feet per second.

    It can go faster than 700fps and be larger than 0.18 inches in diameter if it is a ball of paint that breaks up when it strikes something and the paint is washable.

    IANAL, but the laws are supposed to be understandable by the average person.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2009
  5. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

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    cloudedice, you left out "globular" which means it needs to be spherical.
     
  6. cloudedice

    cloudedice Member

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    Upon further reading, Jorg is right. Pellet guns would be considered firearms because of that pesky word, "globular."

    Does this mean that my BB gun automatically becomes a firearm by placing a pellet into it? (And I were in whatever jurisdiction that definition applies)

    ETA: Hah, Jorg responded before I did.
     
  7. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    someone PM's me an interesting sideline to this that led me to think about it some more.

    Is a spring loaded dart gun a firearm in Illinois?
     
  8. cloudedice

    cloudedice Member

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    Yes. The dart is not "globular."
     
  9. cloudedice

    cloudedice Member

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    For reference, this definition is for the purposes of the Illinois Firearm Owner Identification Card Act (430 ILCS 65/1.1)

    (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑1.1)

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...ctName=Firearm+Owners+Identification+Card+Act.
     
  10. edSky

    edSky Member

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    being somewhat of a smarty-pants, I'd have to say that pea-shooters and spit-balls can be classified as firearms. (1) is very specific, and doesn't cover everything that isn't "designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas." Like pea-shooters.

    Of course it's highly unlikely that someone would be convicted of a pea-shooting violation. But I have seen people do damage with blow-guns. They are used here in Arkansas to tranquilize bears during wildlife surveys. And by Bulgarians in spy movies. :p
     
  11. Phatty

    Phatty Member

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    No, a spring is not "by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas."
     
  12. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    It gets better (or worse, depending on your POV).

    720 ILCS 5 is the criminal code. So the definition of firearm extends to the whole criminal code.
     
  13. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    Come on. You are closing in on it.

    I think we have a winner, at least if they are > .18 caliber peas. :)

    <added>
    It really doesn't matter what the caliber is because a pea shooter is not a gun and only guns are excluded.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2009
  14. cloudedice

    cloudedice Member

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    A blow gun could easily fall into the "firearm" category. It's designed to work by air escaping your lungs/mouth/tube. This description sure seems to fit the "firearm" description. Since the projectiles are darts and aren't paint, it is not excluded by (1).
     
  15. cloudedice

    cloudedice Member

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    Good point. This is the reason I'm not a lawyer. :D
     
  16. t165

    t165 Member

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    Well I'll be damned. I live in Indiana about 1 mile from the Wabash River. Does this mean when I travel across the Wabash (into Illinois) to shoot my RWS .22 350 Magnum Pellet Rifle that I can be arrested? Am I glad I live in the great State of Indiana. We can own/shoot and carry firearms and our State Constitution requires our politicians to balance the budget and not bury Indiana in debt. Basically...if Indiana does not have the money we do not spend it.
     
  17. Phatty

    Phatty Member

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    The .18 caliber requirement is inapplicable unless the device is a pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B‑B gun. A pea shooter is none of those.
     
  18. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    It only excludes those type of guns.

    Since a pea shooter is not a gun, it is not excluded.

    I was just kidding about the .18 caliber thing. I will add a smiley face there.
     
  19. Phatty

    Phatty Member

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    That's technically correct. As you mentioned earlier, I doubt the statute would actually be applied in that fashion.

    The type of projectiles makes no difference. Once you fail to meet the initial threshhold of the (1) exception (pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B‑B gun) you wouldn't read any further.
     
  20. Phatty

    Phatty Member

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    The point that clouddice was making is that, technically, a pea shooter could be a firearm under the Illinois definition.

    The statute is set up so that there is a very broad general definition (any device that shoots a projectile using gas expansion) with specific exceptions. A pea shooter is captured by the general definition and is not excluded by any of the specific exceptions.
     
  21. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    So, loading two BBs crosses the line?

    I know of .50 cal muzzleloaders that operate on compressed air too. I guess they are technically firearms too. I always thought that since they, A. are muzzleloaders, and B. operate from compressed air, they got further away from the 'firearms' definition, than a modern inline would be. Looks like they are not only closer to the definition, they are well within it. IANAL.
     
  22. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    FYI. Illinois considers muzzle loaders including antiques to be firearms.

    Even an original 15th century matchlock is a firearm to the state of Illinois.
     
  23. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    Airsoft = Firearm?

    Airsoft, which uses compressed air via spring, co2, or electric pump, fires plastic BBs measuring 6mm, or 0.236 inches, at up to 500 fps (I believe).

    Therefore, since it's a "globular projectile" of > 0.18 inches, that would make it a "firearm" by the above definition.

    Too funny. A BB gun, shooting a steel ball at 650 fps is okay, but a plastic gun shooting plastic balls at 400 fps is not.

    I used to have a pump gun that shot PING PONG BALLS at maybe 100-200 fps. That, under their definition, would be a firearm.

    Once again, we see the effort to "be precise" resulting in articulation FAIL.

     
  24. Six

    Six Member

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    Are marshmallows considered globular?
     
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