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Need Safe Help

Discussion in 'Shooting Gear and Storage' started by Hanzo581, Jun 26, 2016.

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  1. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Maximum budget $2000.

    Ok, so I am looking for the best bang for my buck. I want as large of a safe as possible yet still have some fire protection. Theft isn't a huge concern, I don't live in a terrible neighborhood, I have an alarm and I lock my doors. That's not to say it isn't possible, but I try to make me a lesser target than the neighbors. Worst case I can see some teens pulling a smash and grab, but any hefty safe would likely be a deterrent. I have plenty electronics around to keep them busy while the cops take their time showing up. I digress.

    So basically fire protection and child protection are my top criteria. (mine and visiting)

    I am looking at Liberty Safes. Looks like I can get the Revere 30 with electronic keypad, dehumidifier and delivered to my spot and bolted down for $1891.13.

    I know it is only resistant for 40 minutes, but it sure beats them being in a closet right now.

    http://www.libertysafe.com/safe-revere-safes-ps-8.html

    Thoughts? Recommendations?
     
  2. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Nobody?
     
  3. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    Call your friendly local safe professional. Likely not the guy who sells gun safes, although some real safe guys do. Ask them about their preowned inventory, specifically a double door document safe.

    These usually have UL ratings (real fire ratings, and will far outperform a gun safe), will typically provide similar burglary protection as a gun safe, and around here can be had for $1,300 to $2,000 depending on the unit.
     
  4. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Never really thought about preowned. I can't seem to find much in my area, but there is one place I am going to visit tomorrow. But I think they just deal with liberty, but doesn't hurt to check them out.
     
  5. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Hanzo;

    Any numbers given for thermal protection produced by the manufacturer are suspect. It is extremely hard, to impossible, to find the test parameters that produced the numbers. Without that knowledge it is impossible to do an accurate comparison of the numbers from different manufacturers. To be blunt, a simple time/temp figure tells you squat.

    The U.L. thermal numbers and test procedures can be found online on their site. However, there isn't an RSC on the market that I know of that meets them. Yes, you will frequently find a U.L. label on the edge of the door of the unit you may be looking at, but it will relate to the Residential Security Container (RSC) rating rather than thermal resistance. If you want to get into serious, and verifiable, thermal protection you then need to get a U.L. rated fire safe. And that may very well be beyond your needs and budget.

    Do call around the various lock shops in your nearest urban area. It's entirely possible that one of them may have an older double-door fire safe that can be converted into gun storage. If they give you a quote, ask if that includes delivery and installation. If not, find out what that would cost. With commercial data storage now going digital there are many of these old dinosaurs on the market today.

    900F
     
  6. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    Keep in mind that a fire that will destroy your guns in a closet is VERY unlikely to be controlled in 40 minutes.

    Read the information on the Sturdy Safe web site. You don't have to buy their save (though I did) or believe all they say but I think the information there is useful.

    You mentioned you wanted a large safe which is a good idea. When I bought my first safe, my wife had me get the smaller one. Then she wanted to put a bunch of her stuff in there. Now I have 2 safes and I got the big one the second time.
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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  8. zerobarrier
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    zerobarrier Contributing Member

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    Look at the liberty fatboy or fatboy jr. You could find the fatboy in your price range if you wait for the to go on sale. They are usually 2000-2200. It has good fire protection and is a large safe. I have the fatboy jr, got it for a steal, otherwise I probably would have went with the fatboy.
     
  9. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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  10. Guy B. Meredith

    Guy B. Meredith Member

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    As Walkalong said, Sturdy makes an interesting box. I just installed one here--close to 1/4" walls and 3/8" door plate on frame of C channel fabricated from 3/16" steel.

    The fire lining had an installer from Liberty scratching his head in trying to bolt it down as it has a 4" layer of fire lining on the bottom between the 1/4" floor plate and the 16 GA liner. :eek: He is accustomed to just whipping them into place with a 4" drill bit so I just rented a hammer drill and 8" bit and did it myself.

    Go to Sturdy Safe's Facebook page where they have been listing online sales of used Sturdy safes and are listing blemished safes. They have a wide range of options.
     
  11. joem1945

    joem1945 Member

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    check with a safe dealer in your area. I bought a huge double door money/ document vault. It had money drawers and all kind of steel shelves in it. Empty weight 4000#. delivered and set in the basement $2500.00. It has a 8 hour fire rating @1400 degrees and is burglar resistant.
     
  12. cdk8

    cdk8 Member

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    In my personal opinion, if it were me I would consider purchasing used to make the money go further. Cosmetic embellishments that many gun safes have can drive up pricing. A used safe that is cosmetically plain can mean more money towards better fire and burglary protection.

    FIRE PROTECTION
    If fire protection is important, I think it is important to purchase a safe that has a fire rating with both longer endurance and higher external test temperatures. Third party fire testing companies have allowed gun safe makers to get different types of approval than UL. For example, you may see a safe with 1 or 2+ hours of fire protection, BUT, the test temp is something like 1,100 degrees...that's stupid low and house fires can get hotter than that. Third party testing methodology is not always clear. Still, that doesn't make all third party testing bad.


    FIRE PROTECTION & ELECTRONICS
    Do note that most fire safes are NOT made to protect electronics, and have not been tested to do so. The UL-350 rating corresponds to protecting paper documents (as paper will self-ignite in the 450 degree range.) Data safes, such as those using the UL-125 or 150 ratings, have some practical limitations, such as high pricing and very high weights. As a tradeoff, you can put electronics in a heat-resistant pouch, place that pouch in a 1-hour UL-rated fire box made by Honeywell, and then place the fire box inside your fire safe.

    BURGLARY PROTECTION
    From a burglary perspective, I consider a safe with B-rate construction characteristics (and a UL Group 2 lock) as the minimum for meaningful burglary protection. Such a safe will have little trouble fending off attacks using only hand tools.

    With a B-rate safe, the front door will have a 1/2 inch of plate steel...still, a B-rate safe only provides limited burglary protection. Yet, a B-rate has roughly 5 TIMES the armor thickness of a gun safe with a 12 gauge armor plate. In most cases, the plate steels found on B-rate and C-rate safes are also considerably harder than the imported mild gauge stainless steels often found on many gun safes.


    ALTERNATIVE?
    If very limited burglary protection is acceptable, it might be worth chatting with an AmSec dealer to ask their thoughts on the CSC lineup...a dealer who has worked with them extensively could tell you their thoughts on what they think about the very low pricing versus the quality of the safe.

    Adesco used to make several UL-rated fire resistant safes, and at one point offered several RSC models, a B-rate model, and a C-rate model. Meilink offered many of the same items with a different branding. Both of these companies have been absorbed by FireKing, but some office supply companies still have some of these safes in stock. Because some existing stock may still have older branding, you might be able to find a deal if you don't mind hunting around some. The Meilink & Adesco Dauntless may suit your needs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
  13. Predator55

    Predator55 Member

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    Liberty or Cannon or Fort Knox, you can't go wrong.
     
  14. cdk8

    cdk8 Member

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    For general low-security storage, absolutely. To resist an attack of any kind/skill, best not IMO.

    Many of the higher-end products from Liberty and Fort Knox are often priced higher than many true high-security safes!!! For example, Fort Knox's high end Titan uses armor that is slightly below that of B-rate construction. However, there are several quality TL-15 tool-resistant safes that use high density composites that are not priced all that differently!!!! :what:
     
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