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need some AR background information

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by cbrgator, Feb 13, 2008.

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  1. cbrgator

    cbrgator Member

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    I am looking to start the process on finding the right AR and purchasing it. I have been reading a lot of the different threads regarding them and have found some useful information, but not enough to make a decision. First off, I don't wat to build one, don't know enough to feel comfortable so I'll use what I buy to learn. I have questions specs wise what the pros/cons of certain things. can anybody provide some info about some of the most basic options like carbine vs non carbine, barrel length, etc. I know about barrel length, thats just an example. but anything else you think would be relevant, if you could help me out that would be awesome
     
  2. MMcfpd

    MMcfpd Member

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  3. Bitmap

    Bitmap Member

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    Go to arfcom!!!!

    One of the best things about AR's is that you can swap uppers easily. Different barrel lengths or weights, different handguards, different calibers, all it takes is money, a few seconds, and in some cases different mags.
     
  4. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    ar15.com is a great resource.

    click on the AR15 tab and you'll find stickies at the top of the AR discussion thread that will give you all kinds of info.

    of course the answer to your question will depend on what you want to do with the rifle, as you can set them up in many, many different purpose tailored configurations.

    the 'big flick' questions you need to answer are...

    1. Caliber (5.56 or 6.8)
    2. Barrel length (carbine 16" or rifle 20")
    3. gas system (carbine, mid-length or rifle)
    4. barrel profile (light weight, gov't profile, heavy or bull)
    5. barrel metal (chrome molly, chrome lined chrome molly, stainless steal)
    6. Sighting system (A2 upper with fixed handle & irons, or flat top upper with optics)
    7. fixed stock or collapsable.
    8. brand

    My pick for a fun gun is

    5.56, 16", mid-length, heavy barrel, chrome lined, A2 upper, w/ 6 pos. collapsable stock, built from a kit by .... me :)

    lot's to learn

    lot's of fun

    good luck
     
  5. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    What do you want this AR15 to do??
     
  6. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

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    Ah, yes. A classic case of AR paralysis by analysis. A very common malady.

    I agree with SSN VET's prescription of a 16" AR, but I'd go with the flaptop so you can put a scope or red dot sight on it. Get the light barrel if you plan to carry it much. The heavy barrel is fine for bench shooting. I prefer a fixed stock over the telestock, but that's a personal preference.

    Remember, AR's are modular, so you can buy additional upper receivers (action and barrel) to put on the lower receiver (stock and trigger).

    Here's the light barrel model:

    http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F16M4.asp

    Here's the heavy barrel model:

    http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F16.asp

    Either will bring a big smile to your face.
    .
     
  7. MMcfpd

    MMcfpd Member

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    And additional lower receivers, and triggers, and sights, and barrels...

    It's always fun to hold up every few months and see just how many complete ARs you have.
     
  8. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    How many threads today asking this question?

    Somebody post the chart.
     
  9. tjhjunk

    tjhjunk Member

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  10. possum

    possum Member

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    ar15.com is your friend, i am a member there as well,

    with that said, i like flatops, with eo-techs, and a buis is a must i have a ma-tech, but there are many nice ones out there, i also like the MAD buis, and some folks like the arms #40 but i amnot a fan.

    a good light would be a surefire scout light they are tough as nails and as long as you don'troll over an1151 on t of one it will be good to go!:) ask me how i know!:)

    rail systems are around in droves and there are many great choices, i have a knights system, but the S.I.R's are nice as well, as well as the Bmas by bushmaster, the daniel defense stuff, the larue tactical all good options,

    i like to upgrade my pistol grip i like the 1st samco grip,as well as the houge, and the Miad is really nice too.

    i love and use only single point slings. i use a z-m weapons one point with a one point sling plate on my ar.

    collapsible butstock for sure is a must.

    i like the m4 profile barrel.

    and that should be a great place to start as far as acessories are cocerned.

    as far as companies. bushmaster is great and i have the most experience with them, rra, stag is also great.
     
  11. cbrgator

    cbrgator Member

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    Well what I want my AR for is... everything. I don't want a setup to do any one particular thing excellent, but a lot of things pretty well. I'd like to use it for plinking, perhaps small game, a SHTF rifle, etc. Unlikely for any sort of HD unless S**T REALLY hit the fan like bin Laden is in my house. I have better HD weapons. I know for a fact I want 5.56 and a collapsible stock. I think I'd prefer 16" but I can be swayed with a good argument. Thats about as much as I know. Ill check out that other forum too. Oh, and my price range would be about $1200 or so.
     
  12. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    Sounds like an LMT M4gery would fit the bull perfectly for you.
     
  13. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    In my opinion, the do-everything AR is a flattop midlength 16" with a medium-profile, Wylde chamber 1:8 barrel. Very versatile rifle within the limits of the caliber.
     
  14. Eightball

    Eightball Member

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    Add a mid-length gas system onto that, and you're golden. I personally don't like quad rails, but if you want 'em, that's your thing. As for mid-length vs. CAR--how many grenade launchers are you planning on mounting on this thing? What's that? None? Well, then why don't you get an additional 2" sight radius and gas system that's slightly less harsh on your firearm?

    Mine's an RRA middy, fixed FSB. Cost me about $900, plus carry handle (for the sight) and ammo. Now I'm working on maybe some PMAGs, and deciding on an optic.

    Have fun shopping, my man.
     
  15. cbrgator

    cbrgator Member

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    what is the difference between mid length and CAR
     
  16. Run&Shoot

    Run&Shoot Member

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    The CAR has the shortest gas tube and therfore is the most harsh and sensitive to variation for reliable extraction. Conversely the rifle length is the longest, gentlest on the bolt and least sensitive to pressure variations. The CAR length difference is more significant in full auto and not much of an issue with semi-auto. One downside is that the forward sight base which has the bayonet lug is too far back to mount a standard bayonet. You can adpat a CAR system for bayonet but it does not come set up for it.

    The mid length extends the gas tube 2" toward the muzzle. This longer direct impingement tube reduces the gas pressure harshness on the bolt and sensitivity to pressure variations. It also moves the FSB out to the proper relation to the muzzle for mounting the bayonet as-is. Being further out the forward sight also has a longer sight radius from the rear sight, thus giving 2" greater sight radius. This is probably the most significant benefit for semi-autos.

    Most 16" carbines, including the Dissipator uses the CAR gas system length unless specifically stated as mid-length. Generally you don't pay more for a mid-length, you just get fewer model choices and fewer "on sale" opportunities.

    If you have a bunch of friends with ARs you may want to get the same thing they have so you can trade handguards, gas system parts, etc. Otherwise it may not make much difference unless you are NFA.
     
  17. cbrgator

    cbrgator Member

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    so unless its rifle length, chances are ill be getting the CAR gas system length
     
  18. ScottTrucker

    ScottTrucker Member

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    Can anyone tell me if Olympic arms makes a good AR15? I see they offer a plain model for around $600.00. I'm just looking to go target shooting. Also which is better 223 or 5.56. I own many guns but I'm in unfamiliar territory here.
     
  19. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    Others know much better than I, but I'll take a crack at your question and see if I get slammed, or have actually managed to learn something here....

    They're reputed to make decent plinkers, but those serious about their ARs consider them as not up to "duty grade". They might meet your needs for a fun range gun and entry level AR just fine.


    5.56 is the Military/NATO spec. chamber. 5.56 ammo is loaded to higher pressures and the chamber is cut slightly different than the .223 chamber. I believe it is less likely to get a stuck case as well as rated for the hotter military loads.

    .223 is the civilian spec. and the ammo is loaded to lower pressures.

    If I have it right....you can shoot .223 ammo in a 5.56 chamber, but you could get into trouble shooting 5.56 in a .223 chamber.

    Now to be corrected by those who know better :eek:
     
  20. ScottTrucker

    ScottTrucker Member

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    Thanks for the reply and the help!!
     
  21. RTFM

    RTFM member

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    Scott I'd shy away for Oly army, they have a very bad reputation, though in there defence, they are rebounding slightly - but all in all the consensus is that Olympic Arms are junk.

    .233 V 5.56 is a pressure issue. A rifle chambered for .223 SHOULD NOT fire a 5.56 round because of the higher pressures generated by that round.
    Conversely a rifle chambered for 5.56 will have no problems firing the lower pressure .223 round.

    If you can (and you should) get a rifle speced for 5.56
     
  22. gunnerh

    gunnerh Member

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    The S&W's M&P15 is fully backed by a great service department. You will pay a little more but not as much as some people think. Resale value is always better with well known brands. Total cost of ownership is normally lower with a S&W. Better quality and pride of owning one.
     
  23. chauncey

    chauncey Member

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    of the DPMS, Colt, Rock River and S&W AR's I've shot in the last year, I thought the Rock River was the best value for the dollar. second best would be a used Colt. ban-era Colt's go for reasonable prices, if you live without a flash suppressor and bayonet lug, and likely with a fixed carrying handle.
     
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