Need VERY mild loads for S&W Model 36

[Walkalong]

Still, can the noticeable difference I have obtained in POI and group size, between shooting W-231 and HP-38, everything else remaining equal (bullet, brass, primer, seating depth, crimp, even same gun) be caused just by minute individual variations in the componets ?

Different lot numbers of the same powder can, especially if you are using dippers or bushings, or you didn't hold your mouth right the last time you weighed a charge.

Plus, there is the human factor. None of us can shoot the same great group over and over.

I see where folks post several pics where they shot one group with each load and say this was best and that was worst.

Unless they are very, very, very good, one group means little to nothing.

On a bad day I can shoot a gosh awful group with a great gun/load no problem at all. On a good day I can make that same gun/load look like a million bucks. On a so so day I can shoot a great one and then a horrid one back to back groups. :banghead:

Most days I can tell if the gun/load is trying to shoot and I am just holding it back, but there are times when I am not sure and have to come back a different day and retest.

Load testing can be aggrevating some times, but very rewarding at other times.

 

[chriske]

Walkalong,
Sure, absolutely, there's some of that....
Actually there is a lot of that....
Come to think of it, in all honesty, that's probably IT.

It's always comforting to hear someone else struggling with the same problems as you do yourself.

 

[Jim Watson]

Still, can the noticeable difference I have obtained in POI and group size, between shooting W-231 and HP-38, everything else remaining equal (bullet, brass, primer, seating depth, crimp, even same gun) be caused just by minute individual variations in the componets ?

Well, this is now and that was then.
Current Hodgdon data for W231 and HP38 is EXACTLY the same, right down to the last fps and psi. Obviously, since Hodgdon got the distributorship for WW powders (they do not own the factory) they are just running one set of tests and packaging the same powder as Winchester or Hodgdon according to demand.

This did not used to be the case. In Lyman Pistol & Revolver 2nd edition, 1994, the same lab with the same components and equipment showed a difference by brand. The top .38 Special load with a 158 gr cast bullet was 4.9 gr W231 for 906 fps at 16,800 CUP; but only 4.3 gr HP38 for 902 fps at 16,900 CUP. That is a 12% difference in maximum load for essentially the same results, due only to the powder choice. I figure that original HP38 specs might have been established with a slow lot of powder off the 231 production line. Now that Hodgdon handles both, they just keep them the same.

 

[Walkalong]

Good point. I am still using W-231 from 3 Lb steel cans.

 

[sublimaze41]

Thank You for all the suggestions. I am now in the process of working up some loads.
My initial load with #5 and Rainier 125 grain FP were accurate, but very snappy.

Any thoughts on using a 110 grain revolver bullet? Will that reduce felt recoil?

 

[Remo-99]

Any thoughts on using a 110 grain revolver bullet? Will that reduce felt recoil?

Yes, if a lighter bullet is travelling at the same velocity as a heavier 125gr or 158gr, when using the same powders.

But I find those shorter/lighter bullets to be less accurate in my revolvers, the 110gr more so than the 125gr.

Theory being that a bullet with a longer bearing surface holds a truer alighnment when passing from the cylinder to the barrel.

Although tight grouping may not be a major consideration, when shooting is done at 7-10 yards.

 

[kenkel98]

Lite 38 loads

There is a wealth of info in this forum. When I started reloading I came here and found a working load for all the calibers that I wanted to load for. From380 all the way to 44 Mag, and from .223 to .308.

A very soft recoil load for the .38 is 4.0gn of W231 under a Rainier 125gn round nose or flat point. ( Thanks ArchAngleCD ) It was to soft for me so I worked up. As I was upping the charge, I found that 4.2gn and 4.3 worked very well and was still really mild and easy to handle. I finally settled on 4.6gn of W231 for a plinking load. But the 4.0gn was a real powder puff round. And I do mean powder puff. Felt like a .22 in a snubbie.

Just be sure to start low and work up. Also, I inspected the barrel after each shot to make sure none of those rascals where hanging around in there. That would ruin a perfectly good day at the range. Carry some cleaning supplies with you to the range to make life easier.

I also worked up some Bullseye loads, started with 3.0gn, again, under a Rainier 125gn RN. Very easy to handle.

I used mixed brass with CCI SP primers and they all went boom.

They are both dirty when loaded this lite, but the W231 cleans up when loaded near max loads, so just be aware of that. I am working with Vihtavuori powders now trying to find something cleaner.

Thanks to everyone here for helping those of us new to reloading get started and for the advise.

BTW, my wife is 5' 5" and about 110 lbs. She likes to shoot .357 better than the .38. She carries a .44Spl as a CCW and enjoyes shooting my .44 Mag and .45's. I think I have forever lost one of my 1911's. She really likes it when it goes BOOM. She will not shoot a .22. Says it doesn't kick hard enough.

Good luck,

 

[ArchAngelCD]

BTW, my wife is 5' 5" and about 110 lbs. She likes to shoot .357 better than the .38. She carries a .44Spl as a CCW and enjoys shooting my .44 Mag and .45's. I think I have forever lost one of my 1911's. She really likes it when it goes BOOM. She will not shoot a .22. Says it doesn't kick hard enough.

She sounds like a heck of a girl, be nice to her. As for your 1911, just consider yourself lucky you have others!!

 

[jfh]

Those same powders segue--

My latest issue of Handloader, #262/Oct 2009 arrived yesterday. On page 25, they have a short article titled Winchester and Hodgdon Powder Interchangeability.

I haven't looked for a link yet, but the second paragraph begins with this statement:

"The following powders come out of the same spout, and there is absolutely no difference...Here is a list of the powders that are the same:

H-110 = 296
HP-38 = 231
HS-6 = 540 (discontinued)
H414 = 760​

(endquote)
Jim H.

 

[justashooter in pa]

3 grains bullseye with 148 HBWC loaded backwards (base facing forwards) is the standard self defense load for lightweight snubbies, at about 750 fps it is a flying ashtray. think of it as the ultimate low velocity hollow point. do not drive these any faster, or you may strip the skirt of the base in the forcing cone and ring the next shot.

 

[rcmodel]

How are you going to strip the skirt off the bullet in the forcing cone & leave it in the barrel if it is loaded backwards?

What you are refering too is the result of loading HBWC bullets going in the normal direction too hot.

Anyway, a HBWC loaded backwards is not the "standard self-defense load" for snubbies.
As a matter of fact, it's not all that great.

The low velocity + rapid & massive expansion can result in very little penetration.

The backwards bullet also tends to want to turn around in mid-flight and is only accurate for a short distance.

rc

 

[RidgwayCO]

To add to rcmodel's excellent critique, I'd worry about an aggressive prosecutor asking "What? The bullet you used to shoot my poor client wasn't deadly enough for you? You had to load it backwards to make a dum-dum round?" Personally, I want to give the lawyers as little ammunition as possible...

 

[bluetopper]

Using 148gr wadcullets I like 2.7gr of Bullseye or 2.5gr of Clays. Very mild and accurate.

My model 36 flat latch eats them like candy.

 

[Maj Dad]

For the 2" Mod 36 I always used the fastest powders - in my case, Bullseye and later on 231/HP-38. Slower burning powders (relatively speaking) will blow unburned grains out the barrel, giving you less velocity and more dirt. The classic 148 gr wadcutter load of 2.7 BE is the cat's PJs in accuracy and low recoil, but I saw a young dude shot in the index finger with one (WW factory match WC) in the ER one night years ago. It entered the dorsum (top) of the proximal phalanx (first bone past the palm) and there was no exit wound. On x-ray, the bullet collapsed the bone and it looked like someone took a punch, broke the bone, and pushed the bullet into the hole. Very informative, and a reminder that mild recoil recapitulates the old Third Law of Motion: if you want more oomph on impact, you gotta take a little more recoil at launch.