Need/want a new "bear gun"

[chaim]

OK, I know 'which gun for bear' threads can get old, and show a lot of misunderstandings. I get that most self defense calibers can work (at least for black bear) with the right ammo. My first line of defense is bear spray, the gun is backup and for sleeping at night (if a bear rips into my tent, I'm not unleashing bear strength pepper spray while in my tent, or what is left of my tent). However, this one is a little different, so "bear" with me (sorry, I'm a teacher, I use a lot of dad jokes)...

I'm a teacher, I'm off summers, and since I gave up summer school I am now traveling and exploring the country during my 6-8 week vacation (last summer was my first). I am thinking about heading west next summer and this might be an excuse for a new gun. While my 2.75" S&W 66 was fine in case I came up on an East Coast black bear, I will possibly be heading into brown bear country next summer (plus, even in NC where I was about a week last year, black bear can get fairly big). While a big bore revolver is often the answer people give, my problem is this... I am tent camping (I am 2-3 years away from buying another RV). That means I need one gun that handles all my needs while traveling. My camping trips aren't just camping trips as they are for some, I use some of my camp sites like others use a hotel, it is a base of operations for sightseeing: I'll be seeing historic sites, going to restaurants, interesting city neighborhoods and small towns, museums, etc. In a few years when I have the RV, I can have a carry gun and a "bear gun" and keep the one I'm not using locked up in the trailer. That doesn't work with a tent, and some states can be pretty restrictive about having guns that you aren't actually carrying in your car. So, for now, I need one gun that is good for wildlife I may encounter as well as something concealable.

Again, I was fine with a 2.5-3" .357mag when in East Coast black bear territory. Heck, a 9mm or .40 with the right ammo would have been fine. I'm a little more weary about that when entering brown bear territory and traveling in a tent.

My options:

• Don't worry. In the rare event I'll need to shoot a bear, 9mm or .40S&W with specialized outdoors/dangerous game ammo should be fine. While gun storage for two different types of guns could be an issue until I have an RV, having mags loaded with different ammo won't be a problem. I'm not sure what I think of this option, it is logically sound, but psychologically, I would like something more if facing a 700-1000LB bear or angry moose.
• 10mm. The right ammo and it is like the 9mm or .40 option, but better. I'm more comfortable with this for the bear possibility, but most 10mm pistols are getting to large revolver size anyway so summer carry is a possible issue.
• .41mag or .44mag. A larger revolver caliber is the best way to go to have something reasonable to carry and reasonable to stop a big bear. However, an N-frame is tough to conceal when wearing winter clothes, in shorts and a polo it won't work very well at all. I almost never carry my S&W 625MG that I have, when I'm heading into the woods this time of year and want something bigger than a 3" K-frame, I am more likely to pick my slightly smaller 4" Taurus 66 than the L-frame. Regardless of what I buy for my "bear gun" I will be buying one of these (or both) for fun eventually, and when I have an RV so I can more easily bring and store two guns it will be my bear gun. However, it doesn't make sense for next summer (I could get a medium frame version like the 69 or Tracker for carry, but shooting magnums out of those at the range will not be fun).
• .357mag. I already carried a 2.75" K-frame last summer, I can easily conceal it (I probably should have got boot grips though, I did have the end of the grip print a little in some of my summer shirts). It is often considered the "minimum" caliber for bear. Up against a 1000LB monster bear or moose, I'd likely psychologically want more, but I would even if I had a .454 on me, so there is that...

I've been back and forth on all of these options, settling on each of them more than once, so I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts on a "bear gun" variation that is also reasonable to carry in summer clothing.

 

[.308 Norma]

While my 2.75" S&W 66 was fine in case I came up on an East Coast black bear, I will possibly be heading into brown bear country next summer (plus, even in NC where I was about a week last year, black bear can get fairly big).

Brown bear - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Grizzly bear - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just for the sake of clarification, are we talking about Brown bears (Ursus arctos) or Grizzly bears (Ursus arctos horribilis)? Right or wrong, I've always called the Grizzly bears we have out here in the west, "Grizzlies," while "brown bears" are the kind of bears that live up north in northern Canada and Alaska. OTOH, "black" bears (the kind of bears we have the most of out here in the west) can be black, blond, cinnamon or brown.

 

[Roverguy]

Were I walking about with brown bears, I would prefer a rifle, with 30-06 and 220s as the minimum, or a 12ga and Brenneke slugs. I’m not sure that you have grasped how very much bigger and potentially more aggressive brown bears are than black bears.

 

[chaim]

Brown bear - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Grizzly bear - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just for the sake of clarification, are we talking about Brown bears (Ursus arctos) or Grizzly bears (Ursus arctos horribilis)? Right or wrong, I've always called the Grizzly bears we have out here in the west, "Grizzlies," while "brown bears" are the kind of bears that live up north in northern Canada and Alaska. OTOH, "black" bears (the kind of bears we have the most of out here in the west) can be black, blond, cinnamon or brown.

Yes I'm talking about bear type not color. Brown bears refers to all brown bear types including grizzlies and Kodiak, though I'm not going to be seeing any Kodiak bears in the lower 48 obviously.

 

[chaim]

Were I walking about with brown bears, I would prefer a rifle, with 30-06 and 220s as the minimum, or a 12ga and Brenneke slugs. I’m not sure that you have grasped how very much bigger and potentially more aggressive brown bears are than black bears.

I'm not seeking them out. I'll be traveling and camping where I may encounter them. A handgun is far handier if one pops it's head into my tent or walks through my campsite while I'm preparing dinner.

 

[.308 Norma]

Were I walking about with brown bears, I would prefer a rifle, with 30-06 and 220s as the minimum, or a 12ga and Brenneke slugs

I'm not seeking them out. I'll be traveling and camping where I may encounter them. A handgun is far handier if one pops it's head into my tent or walks through my campsite while I'm preparing dinner.

Carrying a long gun (a rifle or a shotgun) would be a genuine pain in the you know what if you were doing any serious hiking or backpacking. And a long gun would be worse than useless as a hiking staff. Besides those things, if you were in camp when an onery bear came wandering through, your long gun would likely be leaning against a tree "over there" - instead of on your person where you could get to it.
Nevertheless, as I've said every time one of these bear threads come up - I've lived, hunted, fished, camped, hiked, climbed and backpacked out here in the west my whole life (except for 4 years when Uncle Sam made me live somewhere else) and the only grizzlies we've ever seen in the outdoors were in Yellowstone and Glassier national parks. And most of the blackbears we've ever seen were running away.
Those facts didn't stop me from fretting for years over which handgun to carry for "bear protection" though. I've carried everything from heavily loaded .357s to .41 and .44 Magnums, as well as a heavily loaded .45 Colt for a while. The truth is though, now that I'm old and infirmed I've finally figured out that I'd have been better off carrying my regular EDC (a 9mm) because the times when I felt the most ill-at-ease were when my wife and I were at the trailheads on backpacking trips. Sometimes, 2-legged miscreants hang out at trailheads, yet we never ran into any of those types more than 15 minutes hike into the wild.

 

[Bearcat1982]

cut this guy a break lol he wants a new gun for the woods to have on the belt, etc.
SW 69 5 shot 44 mag with a 4inch barrel, was my choice last fall. I'll likely never need it but wanted a small 44 to carry with my 44 carbine while hunting. If I wanted to add a caliber it would be a 10mm. The model 69 will carry a lot like your 66. Ive fired it with a hand full of different loads its not bad at all. With 240 gr hornady xtp's it was very manageable. With 44 spl its a pop gun. It carries like my 4inch GP100 can share holsters if needs be. Good luck with your travels and enjoy whatever you decide on.

 

[Bearcat1982]

Were I walking about with brown bears, I would prefer a rifle, with 30-06 and 220s as the minimum, or a 12ga and Brenneke slugs. I’m not sure that you have grasped how very much bigger and potentially more aggressive brown bears are than black bears.

Don't see many hikers with long guns. Side arm, bear spray and wits I think he'll be alright.. or all right...

 

[.308 Norma]

cut this guy a break lol he wants a new gun for the woods to have on the belt, etc.

cut this guy a break lol he wants a new gun for the woods to have on the belt, etc.
SW 69 5 shot 44 mag with a 4inch barrel, was my choice last fall.

I agree. I used the "bear gun" excuse to convince myself I "needed" a new gun a few times as well. Heck, I employed the "bear gun" excuse when I bought my own 4" SW 69.

 

[Bearcat1982]

I agree. I used the "bear gun" excuse to convince myself I "needed" a new gun a few times as well. Heck, I employed the "bear gun" excuse when I bought my own 4" SW 69.

It's a solid justification in my book. Well knowing I'll probably end up carrying my SP101 anyways

 

[.308 Norma]

(I could get a medium frame version like the 69 or Tracker for carry, but shooting magnums out of those at the range will not be fun).

You don't need to load a 69 or Tracker all the way up for shooting at the "range." Probably 90% of the loads I shoot in my 69 are just 44 Special loads in 44 Magnum cases.
I have a Taurus Tracker as well (although mine is a 41 Mag) and I do the same thing with it - mostly shoot what amount to 41 "Special" loads in 41 Magnum cases. Although, those cushy rubber grips and the porting help tame the recoil when I run some of my real "bear blaster" 41 Magnum loads in it.

 

[Rodfac]

I agree. I used the "bear gun" excuse to convince myself I "needed" a new gun a few times as well. Heck, I employed the "bear gun" excuse when I bought my own 4" SW 69.

Been there...done that....(several times) Rod

 

[WYO]

I’d focus on something you will shoot a lot and make good hits quickly under intense pressure. Then load it with hard cast or solid copper penetrator ammo that has been vetted in the gun. Carrying a magnum cannon you won’t shoot much and can’t shoot rapidly with any degree of accuracy is not a winning strategy. While I’ve carried my 9mm in grizzly country loaded with hard cast +P 147s or 115 grain Xtreme Penetrators, I wasn’t too far off pavement and I was mostly passing through the area with a lot of time spent on pavement or not in a grizzly area.

I wouldn’t hesitate to carry a .40 S&W or .45 ACP with the right ammo. Here is a video I had handy. If I wanted to spend a bunch of time on and off pavement, I’d probably just take my Glock 30SF and hard cast ammo off pavement and 230 grain Gold Dots on pavement. With 9 and 10 round magazines it hides fine in an IWB holster. It works with Glock 21 magazines if I wanted more capacity.



Nowadays, I would carry either .40 or .45 hard cast ammo loaded by Lost River Ammunition Company instead of Buffalo Bore. The proprietor spends a lot of time in grizzly country with .45 ACPs loaded with his ammo. I just happened to have the Buffalo Bore on hand when I shot that.

 

[Rodfac]

I’d focus on something you will shoot a lot and make good hits quickly under intense pressure. Then load it with hard cast or solid copper penetrator ammo that has been vetted in the gun. Carrying a magnum cannon you won’t shoot much and can’t shoot rapidly with any degree of accuracy is not a winning strategy. While I’ve carried my 9mm in grizzly country loaded with hard cast +P 147s or 115 grain Xtreme Penetrators, I wasn’t too far off pavement and I was mostly passing through the area with a lot of time spent on pavement or not in a grizzly area.

I wouldn’t hesitate to carry a .40 S&W or .45 ACP with the right ammo. Here is a video I had handy. If I wanted to spend a bunch of time on and off pavement, I’d probably just take my Glock 30SF and hard cast ammo off pavement and 230 grain Gold Dots on pavement. With 9 and 10 round magazines it hides fine in an IWB holster. It works with Glock 21 magazines if I wanted more capacity.



Nowadays, I would carry either .40 or .45 hard cast ammo loaded by Lost River Ammunition Company instead of Buffalo Bore. The proprietor spends a lot of time in grizzly country with .45 ACPs loaded with his ammo. I just happened to have the Buffalo Bore on hand when I shot that.

Not sure if I'm ready for an auto as bear defense, but that is impressive penetration.....good video....Regards, Rod

 

[Terry G]

Bear Spray works well on Canadian Black Bear, even mean acting Males. However I had my Son backing me up with a M-1 Garand.

 

[ECVMatt]

I am going to jump on the Glock 30/29 bandwagon. I carry a Glock 30 SF sometimes in Montana and in other mountain places. It is a great compromise for CCW and hiking around. I would pick Lost River ammo over BB every time. The owner of LR often points out that his +P .45 ACP load is close to duplicating the original .45 Colt loading. That has a great reputation for penetration on bigger animals. I have found that it is easier to get the .45 "Wilderness" loads to work over the 10mm.

 

[Pat Riot]

Chaim, from your options and needs I personally would consider a Glock 10mm. You could get a full sized gun with a capacity of 15 rounds or their Compact G29 with a 10 round capacity.

Find Your Perfect GLOCK Pistol

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us.glock.com

 

[Tallball]

Bears kill an average of one American per year. Cows kill 21.

Bears kill fish; cows kill people.

Cows are big and heavy and bony.

My recommendation is a nice large-caliber DA revolver for cattle bustin. Maybe something like a S&W 629 4"?

You could use it on a bear if you had to.

Smith and Wesson Model 629-5

• Tallball
• May 25, 2019

 

[halfmoonclip]

For the OP, how about a stout lock box for your vehicle, allowing a choice of what you carry, and what you stash?
Having something readily concealable, and still able to take down large critters, is quite a reach.
Moon

 

[Sacramento Johnson]

"I've been back and forth on all of these options, settling on each of them more than once, so I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts on a "bear gun" variation that is also reasonable to carry in summer clothing."

I'm afraid there is really no gun that can easily/readily fulfill both requirements. The only "small" bear gun I can think of, that really could be used as such, would be a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in 44 mag (which could also use 44 specials) or 454 casull (which could also use 45 colts). It's a little "bear" itself. I can't imagine carrying one in summer clothing unless you are packing a CCW type shoulder sling bag or fanny pack (either of which might work for a tourist). One can find 44 special and 45 colt self defense rounds suitable for urban use from Winchester, Hornady, PMC, etc, and of course more potent rounds in 44 mag or 454 casull for when you really want bear stopping power...

 

[Quanah]

Ruger Alaskan 454. Have it mooned for 45 acp, so you'll shoot it a bunch for fun.

 

[Bennj]

S&W just released the 629 Mountain gun 44mag with no IL for your consideration. The Alaskan 454 sounds good too if these older hands could hold onto it.

 

[jmorris]

 

[Random 8]

You left a caliber off the table. .45 Colt. That comes with a caveat though. How comfortable are you/could you become with a Western style single action? Most of the reproduction "cowboy" guns come in a relatively light and compact version, some with a birdshead grip. Worked pretty good for folks in the West when it was just a bit wilder than it is today. Yes, I'm sure some got eaten by bears too, but plenty didn't.

I wouldn't recommend it for a shootout with a biker gang or go poking Yogi in the hind end to pick a fight, but your looking for a compromise gun here. A relatively light and compact single action revolver chonking a big hunk o lead might be it, provided the OP shoots it A LOT and feels confident wielding such an arm. I'd choose it over a .357 if Brownies are on the menu, just due to the weight of projectile. It would certainly look proper in good leather around camp or on a hiking trail.

Not specifically recommending it as a best option, rather throwing it out there for consideration.

 

[Rexster]

For some real-world perspective, of a “not-a-bear gun” being used to defend against a grizzly:

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Alaska Outfitter Defends Fishermen from Raging Grizzly with 9mm Pistol

Two weeks ago, veteran outfitter Phil Shoemaker was guiding two fishing clients in the Alaska bush when the party came face to face with an enraged grizzly. Shoemaker, armed only with a 9mm semi-auto pistol, defended his clients and himself. Here’s his account …

www.americanhunter.org

Ep 320: Master Alaska Guide Phil Shoemaker Talks Brown Bear Hunting

Apple | iHeart | Pandora | Spotify | YouTube

thebiggamehuntingblog.com

Master Alaska Guide Phil Shoemaker Talks Brown Bear Hunting

Master Alaska Guide Phil Shoemaker joins me on this episode of The Big Game Hunting Podcast to talk about brown bear hunting in Alaska. Phil was kind enough ...

www.youtube.com

To be clear, I have not been on foot, in grizzly country, and have only rarely and occasionally been on foot in moose country, so, am not making any recommendations. If I were to be on foot, where such large mammals roam the earth, I would start with what I tend to carry, here in SE Texas, a Ruger SP101. I might well add a Glock 9mm pistol, because I am very familiar with them, in the police duty pistol context, and have carried them during much personal time. Obviously, I would carry ammo more-oriented toward deeper penetration than what I typically use, here in SE Texas. I would need to confirm proper functioning and point-of-impact, with any unfamiliar load.

Because my wife has expressed an interest in visiting remote PNW areas, sooner or later, I did acquire a well-preserved Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan, .454/.45, when it became available, locally. I will probably never fire a .454 Casull round through it, so, would need to confirm function and point of impact with a suitable hard-cast .45 Colt load. My wife might well be the one to actually tote this one. (I installed an original-pattern GP100 grip, which fits both of us.) She has successfully hunted feral hogs with a K-Frame S&W .357 revolver, and regularly totes an S&W Model 327 PC, so, knows a thing or two about carrying and using revolvers. (She does not use Magnums in her Airlite Model 327; nor would I do so.)

Then, there are single action sixguns. I will simply say that one must seriously train with these, first, if planning to use them defensively. Cocking a hammer may not be intuitive to someone accustomed to DA revolvers and modern autopistols. I have been working with single actions, because arthritis is starting to limit my DA sixgunning.