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Need your opinions please

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by J-Bar, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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    I found a S&W model 60-4, 5-shot .38 Special (not .357), stainless steel, three-inch barrel, adjustable sights, rosewood grips, used not abused, no major cosmetic issues, locks up tight, no box or papers, listed for $499. I think I can get a cash price a bit lower than that. I don’t need it but kinda want it.

    Reasonable price for a three inch barrel?

    Your thoughts appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
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  2. tubeshooter

    tubeshooter Member

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    Tough call. I am a sucker for items like that...

    There is a part of me that says you could get a brand-new, .357 capable model 60-15 for about another $150.


    I am generally a fan of the 3" revolver. That being said, I think I'd like $450 a lot better than $499 in this case.
     
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  3. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    I don't think it is *good enough* a deal to jump on it.

    But then, I don't like .38 onlies on .357 frames very much either. It's kind of heavy and large for stashing, not really long enough to take great pleasure in *target* shooting with and like a stray cat - has neither a box nor papers.

    Todd.
     
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  4. Waveski

    Waveski Member

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    .38 only is a positive selling point for me , 3" barrel is also a big selling point. I own a similar 3" 60 ; it is a superb shooter.very different gun compared to the standard barrel. If I factor in the adjustable sights - I'm hoping to go lower than $499 - but I am not walking away if the seller holds firm.

    When do you think you'll get a crack at another one? 3" 60s with target sights do not exactly grow on trees.
     
  5. StrawHat

    StrawHat Member

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    I competed in the Off Duty leg of PPC with a 36-1, no adjustable sights. Took a bit to learn the holdover. I WISHED it had adjustable size on it! The 36-1 was very accurate I am sure this newer iteration will also be accurate.

    The J frame is a good package in 38 Special. Not really built for the magnum load.

    Kevin
     
  6. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    The S&W 60-4 is a S&W 686 that got shrunk.
    I have a 60-4, it is one of my favorite revolvers. Plus-P 158 SWCHP are a breeze to shoot from that little J-frame.
    Offer $450 cash.
     
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  7. Pat Riot
    • Contributing Member

    Pat Riot Contributing Member

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    What he said ^^^

    I look at things this way when it comes to “my” guns. If I like it, I can afford it, and I am fairly confident that I am not screwing up too bad I go for it. Every time I have walked away from something that I wanted because someone said I could get it cheaper elsewhere that actually NEVER has occurred. I usually do not see another one or when I do it’s more money than the first one I walked away from.

    I love it (not really) when I find something I like and someone always pipes up with “You should be able to get that for so much less” I ask them to prove it. More often than not they cannot. And if they can, the hassle to buy it outweighs any savings.

    I say go for it. Ask for $50 off and if they won’t budge I wouldn’t beat myself up over full price. It’s a 60 with a 3” barrel! :thumbup:
     
  8. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    J- Bar

    I'd buy it for that price. Don't really need another J frame but I have always been a big fan of the 3" barrel on the Model 36 and a Model 60 with that barrel and with an adjustable rear sight would be like icing on the cake!
     
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  9. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    Last year I bought two 60-15's for $450 or less. Both like new with the boxes, and all papers tools and even the plastic bag the gun ships in.
     
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  10. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    With MIM lock parts and the dreaded keyhole frame. S&W 60-4 has forged and machined lock parts and no keyhole in the frame.
     
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  11. MikeJackmin

    MikeJackmin Member

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    I have one and love it. They are hard to find.
     
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  12. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    Yup, and I've never had an issue with either "The Lock" or MIM parts.
     
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  13. Pat Riot
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    Pat Riot Contributing Member

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    J-Bar, did you get it?
     
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  14. km101

    km101 Member

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    I love my 60-15! It does .357 very comfortably and is EASILY concealed. It has been my EDC for the last two years! If I needed another 60, I would not hesitate at a 60-4 but I would try to negotiate the price. Great guns!
    It’s like a 3/4 scale 686.
     
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  15. tubeshooter

    tubeshooter Member

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    If he didn't - it is very likely gone by now.
    Ask me how I know this...


    As someone alluded to earlier - overpaying by $50 or so for something you really like isn't the end of the world. I have certainly done it, and will probably do it again before it's all over.
     
  16. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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    Going back in tomorrow to see if it is still there.

    Thanks to all for your comments. I will let you all know one way or the other.
     
  17. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    Many S&W collectors do have a problem with those parts. Resale value should be a concern. After all most every firearm will outlive us.
     
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  18. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    I'd prefer not to have the lock and MIM parts.

    Collectors have problems with lots of things. If they had their druthers Smith's would still be pinned and recessed. Everything would still be hand fit and polished. The prices for new guns would be astronomical.

    Shooters don't seem to mind. If it does really bother you, the lock can be removed or plugged to make it practically invisible and the MIM parts can be replaced. Some respected gunsmiths actually think the MIM parts are an improvement as they're more consistent and don't take much to slick up.

    I've owned near 30 S&W's from different time periods and I've had stinkers from the gold old days and outstanding ones from recently when "they don't make them like they used to". I've never had a MIM part break (and there's very few reports of such) and never had a lock turn itself on (there is admittedly a few reports of such in ultralight magnums doing so).
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
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  19. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Excuse me but I have to take issue with your remarks about collectors. Particularly your distinction between collectors and shooters.

    Not all of us are as picky as you seem to think.

    I am a card carrying member of the Smith and Wesson Collectors Association and I do shoot many of my Smith and Wessons.

    No, I do not have a problem with MIM parts, S&W did extensive testing to be sure the parts would stand up to regular service. The current MIM parts have been designed from the ground up to work without hand fitting.

    I don't even have a problem with the lock.

    I do have a problem with current S&W quality control. I only have two 'modern' Smiths, with MIM parts and locks, both of them have quality issues that would not have made it out the door in the old days, when there were far more in process inspections. Yes, S&W has designed out some of those quality inspections from a cost standpoint. Perhaps I have gotten a couple of clunkers, but I don't think so. The quality is simply not there any more. My oldest S&W revolver left the factory in 1859, and I have many examples from each decade since. Like any successful company, S&W has always striven to reduce cost to manufacture, even back in the 1860s. There were many mistakes made along the way that were corrected in later versions. I'm just not crazy about what the company is making today and I doubt if I will be buying any more 'modern' S&W revolvers.
     
  20. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    Firstly, let me start with I respect the heck out of your opinion.

    If @P5 Guy had said he had an issue with modern QC, I would agree that it isn't what it once was. Nobodie's is honestly. I currently work in QC for a large company internationally known for high quality products and even here there's a not small amount of "it's pretty close, we'll send it out and see if the customer complains". So we're on the same page that S&W (and others) aren't turning out the same well polished pieces they once were. I'll keep buying them though when it's my only option for the features I want and I'll tune them up as needed. I'm not thrilled about it, but not a whole lot of other options I'm aware of.

    If I stopped buying from a manufacturer after 1 problem child, oddly enough I'd only own Rossi, Heritages and T/C.

    Let's also acknowledge that a 60-4 is from about 1990. Yes, it is a pre-lock gun, but hardly from "the good ol' days".
     
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  21. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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    OK, I promised you all an update, so here it is. This has been a day of surprises.

    Surprise #1: The revolver had not yet been sold.

    Surprise #2: I asked the clerk to check for box and papers, and he found it! The label matches the gun description and serial number. The original wrapping paper and factory literature was under the foam rubber. and the box contained the factory rubber grip.

    Surprise #3: The box label displayed a "Special Order" number, and "Target Hammer". Looks like a target trigger, also. It had been shot, but patches through the bore and chambers came out clean, so it had not been shot much. I cannot see any wear on the ratchet at all. The firing pin is mounted on the hammer.

    Surprise #4: He accepted my offer of $450, so even with sales tax it was less than $500 out the door.

    Surprise #5: The rosewood grips are not S&W grips, which I suspected because there was no medallion. They fit very tightly and are marked "J-SQ" on the inside. They were made for a square butt gun.

    Surprise #6: This is a round butt gun, but the wood grips work just fine. The factory rubber grip feels fine also.

    Surprise #7: The sights adjusted quickly to the only .38 Special loads I have on hand at the moment, home-cast 158 grain RNFP over 2.7 grains of Bullseye. The target was at 7 yards but I shot it Bullseye style; one-handed, single action. What you are seeing on the target is mostly my old eyes and Parkinsonian tremor. I have no doubt most of you could produce a tighter group.

    With the "Special Order" number and the other unusual features, I'm thinking I have an odd duck here. Which is fine because my family thinks I am an odd duck anyway. I posted on the S&W thread above and hopefully we can get a manufacturing date from the serial number.

    Edit: 1996

    This was fun! Thanks for your support. We should do it again!! :thumbup:

    Photos:

    a.JPG


    b.JPG


    c.JPG


    d.JPG


    e.JPG


    f.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
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  22. Coyote3855

    Coyote3855 Member

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    Certainly no apologies needed for that excellent group.
     
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  23. Waveski

    Waveski Member

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    The only negative thought I can possibly conjure up about that revolver you just snagged :
    I regret that I can post only one "Like"!

    Based on my experience with my 3" 60 , coupled with what I saw and read in your post , I am certain if that were my revolver it would quickly become one of my favorites. With a target trigger too yet! And case hardened. What class.
    You are lucky guy , and I am envious.
     
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  24. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    My point which you may have overlooked is; which gun will have more value when resale becomes an issue? S&W60-15 or S&W60-4?
    We all will shuffle off this mortal coil leaving behind material possessions. Don't you want your heirs to get the most value from what you leave behind?
     
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  25. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

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    Very nice! You got a peach!
     
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