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Needless range death

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by coloradokevin, Jul 20, 2009.

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  1. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    So, I just saw this article through a local news site:

    http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=119786&catid=346


    While I think that it is tragic when anyone loses their life in the course of enjoying a hobby, I also realize that this incident was completely preventable, and will probably lead to this range eventually being shut down!

    For those of you who shoot in the Colorado Front Range, you are probably already familiar with the Rampart Range facility. When I lived near Colorado Springs I used to regularly visit this unsupervised range, which is located in one of the best natural settings I've had the pleasure of shooting at (with a nice big view of Pikes Peak and everything). Unfortunately, in classic form people have trashed this FREE and unsupervised public range, which has led to an ongoing controversy over whether or not it should be closed. Given this incident, I imagine we've probably seen the last of this facility :cuss:

    As I said, it is tragic when anyone loses their life unecessarily. But, it is a real shame that the negligent actions that led to this death will now probably impact the rest of the local shooting community!
     
  2. damien

    damien Member

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    Someone drove off the Grand Canyon last week. Maybe they should shut that facility down. Too damn dangerous.
     
  3. rondog

    rondog Member

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    I've been to Rampart a couple times, won't go back. I knew it was just a matter of time before somebody caught one there, but I'm surprised it was during an "unloading". I still expect someone to catch one from some idiot doing something stupid. Seems like that's the place to go for the idjits.
     
  4. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

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    That made me laugh :)
     
  5. dbltp

    dbltp Member

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    I live in the springs and have been to Rampart Range once or twice ad i also will not go back there. Both times I was there it was half-filled with people gangsta' leaning their two different caliber handguns in rapid fire hitting not a damn thing...

    The other half is full of trash... it literally looks like a garbage dump that has an inordinate number of shell casings... I would rather drive an hour further and shoot in the national forest or pay to go to Dragon Mans.
     
  6. hawmanai

    hawmanai Member

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    Rather than shutting it down, I would propose that someone step forward and apply for a special use permit to operate a recreational facility and charge people to use it.

    Nowdays the Forest Service has money problems and this might be a solution to shutting it down. Shutting it down won't solve anything as people will still use it for whatever.

    The FS is also going to avoid any kind of responsibility and most of the folks in leadership positions are college kids with enviromental degrees (not gun lovers).
     
  7. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    I thought this range was closed long ago.
     
  8. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    hawmanai,

    I have an issue with adding more fees for using public land. It seems like everything is gaining a fee here and there these days, and I'm tired of the trend. I always enjoyed having a free place to shoot, even if I normally conduct such operations on lessor known pieces of public land these days!

    dblpt,

    It has been almost five years since I lived down that way, so things could have certainly become worse than it was when I was there. The trash was always a huge factor even when I was living further south, and I even recall one instance where some idiot shot a deer that was standing near the backstop on the 100 yd range.

    I only ever dealt with one incident at this range where I felt like my safety was in jeapordy (out of probably 100+ times going there). In this instance I was shooting at the range just as the sun was setting, and a car load of gang-banger types rolled up to use the range. They were drinking beer, and obviously not the least bit conscious of safety. In fact, they never placed a target on the backstop, and just began blasting away in the classic gangsta' shooting stance. This incident was definitely a concern to me, but given that it occurred just as it was getting dark, I figured that it wasn't the type of activity that was seen during normal daytime operating hours (we were just packing up when they arrived, as it was nearly too dark to shoot, and I haven't personally witnessed incidents like these during the daylight hours).
     
  9. GodGuns&Guitars

    GodGuns&Guitars Member

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    I've been there twice and never shot there. I was there one time when small children, (2 years old) were running around unsuppervised with no hearing protection or anything. It was only a matter of time before something like this happened there. People bring out old TV's dump them, shoot at them, then leave the darn things lying around. Trash is blowing all over the place, empty boxes, Wal Mart bags, and various other stuff. I cringe just driving by the place. I don't know about closing the place, but something definitely needs to be done. Friends of the NRA spent a weekend cleaning the place up once, only to have the place trashed out before the weekend was out. People drinking, throwing their cans out and then shooting at them. A good place to steer clear of unless someone wants to take it over and manage it. County and forest service are out of money to do such a thing. People would just complain about that too.
     
  10. Bailey Guns

    Bailey Guns Member

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    Ummm...I think that's exactly what happened.
     
  11. stonecutter2

    stonecutter2 Member

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    This is the range where Klebold and Harris of the Columbine incident went to mess around with their sawed off shotguns and such. So, umm...yeah. Idjits indeed.
     
  12. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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  13. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    I've been shot over in the grasslands antelope hunting. That's totally different than a stray fired at a prarie dog when you can SEE someone's house.

    4 rules apply, even when you're in the middle of nowhere.
     
  14. Lonestar49

    Lonestar49 Member

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    ...

    Unfortunately, the grieving father has to put the_blame on something, other than the group there with his kid, or his kid, alone.

    Supervision comes from within first and foremost. But, being a trash dump, in looks, beer cans, food wrappers, etc., etc., shows that one element of guns, and booze, can make for bad things to happen, in itself.

    Not saying they had any to drink or that alcohol was a primary factor, but they need some kind of sign, with stated rules, enforced by drive-thru's by the local authority's, no different than our roads. For the very most part, we hardly see the LEO's but, only when we don't and are doing something wrong, dangerous, or suspicious, or just stupid, is usually when one does see them.

    There is no "really right answer here" for this moment, only the fact that with one gun, let alone, many, with others, the common link will always be the weakest link in a chain of known & unknown, rules of safety and conduct, and poof, something bad occurs.

    In reality, they had supervision, themselves, but someone failed to watch them self..

    Self responsibility: a dying truth of, what used to be for most, is no more.

    Choose your company well, especially, when associated with anything that is dangerous, unforgiving, of the smallest mistakes.

    Sad,


    Ls
     
  15. larry_minn

    larry_minn Member

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    so his kid gets killed because others in his group were idiots. So the fathers "solution" is to close the renge?

    Sorry for his loss but if he feels this way the day after he finds out his son was killed he is a idiot.
     
  16. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

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    You can make all the rules you want but stupid and guns will always go together.

    Or as the AD and ND folks like to legitimize their own darwin actions, its not a matter of if but when.
     
  17. rondog

    rondog Member

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    I consider the place nothing more than an "officially sanctioned Bubba Range". Not even worth the drive to scrounge for brass. Both times I was there, it was picked completely clean of all reloadable brass, nothing but the steel crap and shotgun shells by the jillions. Oh, and trash, lots of trash. If the road going in wasn't so rough and brutal, it would be even worse there.
     
  18. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    Well, I always liked the range due to its proximity to the Springs, and the beautiful natural setting (too bad the trash dump look takes away from that quite a bit).

    I guess I don't really know what the solution to this problem is, but I can say that I imagine that the "problem" probably consists of less than 5% of all of the shooters who go there. Unfortunately our community has done a very poor job of policing ourselves, and the actions of the few idiots out there has led to the closure of probably at least twenty ranges that I was familiar with in my lifetime alone.

    I like being able to go to a range where I don't need a membership, don't need to pay to be there, and can come and go as I please. I grew up doing this, and I appreciate the freedom that it provides. Sadly, unsupervised public ranges are a dying breed. It seems like some portion of today's generation of shooters can't be expected to behave in the same manner that shooters did in previous generations, and we are losing ranges quickly as a result.

    I agree with the sentiment that this kid's father is an idiot. The loss of his son was a needless tragedy, but his misguided solution is to close the range, rather than hold his son's friends accountable for their actions!
     
  19. GodGuns&Guitars

    GodGuns&Guitars Member

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    Closed!

    The range is now officially closed, was up there this morning. Forest Service was up there fencing it off and it will be closed until further notice. Not sure how much the "father" had to do with it. It was still a trash dump and in poor upkeep. Got caught by the local news and was asked to do an interview and declined to be on camera. At least at this time. Anyone want to be on camera about the situation?
     
  20. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    The shot flew over you?

    or

    You got shot, over in the grasslands.

    I'm assuming the former. Did you just hear the bullet whiz by?

    p.s.
    I haven't been able to draw a pronghorn tag for unit 87 or 88. Must be fairly competitive for those tags.
     
  21. Grey_Mana

    Grey_Mana Member

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    I feel exactly the same way about the United States Senate.
     
  22. GodGuns&Guitars

    GodGuns&Guitars Member

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    There is an article about it on www.koaa.com for those that wish to read it. I declined an on camera interview. If someone wants their 15 seconds of fame you can be there at 5 for a live feed.
     
  23. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Looks like the local anti gun folk FINALLY got their way.

    http://www.gazette.com/articles/range-58832-shooting-forest.html

    Rampart Range is closed (they say "temporarily" but barbed wire and concrete barricades don't say temporary to me).


    Uh, no. There are literally THOUSANDS of "unofficial ranges" on Forest Service land all over this state. Harris and Klebold didn't drive over an hour down to the springs, they drove 15-20 minutes from their home.



    Anyway, there's always been a lot of fuddish elitism from shooters around here about Rampart. Anyone that thinks this couldn't have happened on ANY range is sadly incorrect.

    Since I finally got in at Frontier Sportsmen's Club (local private range) a couple years ago I haven't been back up to Rampart, but for as pro gun as this area is, there's really not a lot of ranges (Dragonman's is frankly no better than Rampart as far as idiots go, and I think its filthier) so this closure is really going to have a negative impact on the local shooting public (especially newbies). Yes there were the occasional idiots, but there were also LOTS of safe, decent folk who shot there.

    Its a sad reminder of why we keep pounding people over the head with the 4 rules.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
  24. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    I'm streaming KVOR 470AM.

    The top-of-the-hour news stated that the range will be reopened soon. He gave a specific date, that I missed, but it was something like a week from Saturday.

    FWIW
     
  25. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    I was without power for a few days due to the major hailstorm that hit my part of town... Just now saw this update. Sadly, it is exactly what I was expecting when I started this thread, I just didn't think it would happen so soon!
     
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