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negligent discharge

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by GingerGuy, Aug 15, 2008.

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  1. GingerGuy

    GingerGuy Member

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    While I was at the August A. Busch Conservation Gun Range this morning, a guy 4 stations down had a neglegent discharge. First time it has happened while I was at a range. I've never seen a guy pack-up and get out of there so fast.

    He was with his wife and was working on a stovepipe with one in the chamber. His handgun wasn't pointed down range and he had his finger on the trigger while trying to remove the stovepipe and BANG.:what:

    Those .40 S&W rounds will go through wood just fine thank you...for anyone that has been to this range outside of St. Louis, you know they have rangers all around and it's very formal shooting, everything by the book.

    After the guy left with his head down, another guy said, "man, he's lucky" and I said, "No, actually we're lucky". It had to be pretty close for the guy in the booth right next to him....wasn't anyones time this morning...thankfully.
     
  2. pingpingping

    pingpingping Member

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    Yeeeeeeshh!!!!:what:
     
  3. Chipperman

    Chipperman Member

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    Yikes.
    Hopefully he learned his lesson and will be safer for it.
     
  4. DrPerry

    DrPerry Member

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    There may be four rules but

    1 keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction
    2 keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction
    3 keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction
    4 keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction

    That's how I see's it
     
  5. Pat-inCO

    Pat-inCO Member

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    I just hope the range has his name and address. Then makes sure he goes through a gun safety course before he is allowed to shoot there again. A $100 (or more) course at that. Hit them in the wallet and you get their attention.

    As Forest Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does".
     
  6. nambu1

    nambu1 Member

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    I was taught by my father and have taught my children, never point a gun at anything you do not intend to shoot.
     
  7. Thernlund

    Thernlund Member

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    I'll bet that after he had some time to stew over it at home he felt absolutely terrible. The "what if's" begin piling up in your head so fast you can't keep track.

    Things like that will certainly put you off going shooting for awhile, eh?


    -T.
     
  8. papajohn

    papajohn Member

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    Things like that have put me off going to public ranges for twenty years. I spent enough time ducking muzzles at the PD, I don't need it in my free time!

    PJ
     
  9. lookn4varmints

    lookn4varmints Member

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    Geez, he left without offering an apology? I would have been on my face begging for the forgiveness of my idiocy.
     
  10. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    So wait - His pistol had a stovepipe, but still fired when he pressed the trigger?

    That's a pretty...interesting malfunction.:scrutiny:
     
  11. nplant

    nplant Member

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    I'm inferring that he *cleared* the malfunction with finger on the trigger. Who knows how he did it, but in my head, he plucks out the brass from the top, and also starts squeezing his trigger finger at the same time. Once the gun goes back in battery, his finger completes the trigger press, and KA-FLIPPIN-BOOM!
     
  12. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    Wonder what precisely happened?

    Semi-automatics....
     
  13. Old Grump

    Old Grump Member

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    Lots of TV sets, coffee tables and walls have been decorated by members of any gunsite you can find and they can't all be blamed on the gun being a semi-automatic. Fool around long enough and some day you will be careless. Happened to me while deer hunting right after I had bragged about never having had a ND. Nobody hurt except my pride. Upset me so bad I had to get out of my car half way home and throw up in a ditch. Don't know what happened to that guy or whether it was a gun problem, lack of training or just a moment of carelessness but it happens.
     
  14. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    To err is human. That's why there are four rules, not just one. Hope he learns from his mistake.
     
  15. Technosavant

    Technosavant Member

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    That's where I normally go to shoot. Hopefully that idiot won't be there the next time I go. The range officers there tend to be pretty strict (I know many folks don't like that), but the fact is that there are plenty of extremely irresponsible people with guns and they use the same facilities as the responsible ones.

    When I was teaching my sisters to shoot, each time there was some moron like this there- they didn't have a ND, but they were constantly getting corrected for rules violations. As I said to my sisters, "Don't be that person."
     
  16. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

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    Need to get that mentality out of gun owners heads.

    Its used as an excuse to rationalize bad habits, behaviour and just plain stupidity.
     
  17. jonmerritt

    jonmerritt Member.

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    To err is human, but to err with a loaded gun is a moment of idiocy. Followed be several moments of crapping in your pants.
     
  18. Eric F

    Eric F Member

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    Negligent discharge? how do we really know?

    Just because the muzzle is pointed in the wrong direction does not make it a negligent"discharge". Its unsafe and negligent for sure but the discharge could have been accidental due to mechanical failure. Maybe the gun doubled and caused the stovepipe. Maybe the fireing pin was jamed at to where it hit the primer when he cleared the stove pipe.

    I really do dislike all this finger pointing and calling of negligencewith out hard facts. There can always be a acidental discharge with negligence. For example you chamber a round and due to mechanical failure gun goes bang(ad). Bullet leaves gun goes through floor and hits neighbor in down stairs apartment(with negligence).

    Do we really know what actually hapened in the op or are we all going on assumption?
     
  19. DrLaw

    DrLaw Member

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    I saw a guy have three cartridges stuck in the chamber area at one time. He was wiggling the gun all over the place to try to get the mess undone. I sent him packing off the range, the people in the outer area sent him back in! :what:

    Same guy had a nasty habit of starting to aim by raising his gun above his head, slowly bringing it down, WITH his finger in the trigger guard.

    Now that guy was scary AND dangerous. Not using our range anymore.

    The Doc is out now. :cool:
     
  20. ColinthePilot

    ColinthePilot Member

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    I don't even know anymore
    I'm not sure I understand how this was a negligent discharge. I just dry fired my pistol (pointed in a safe direction, of course). I started by locking the slide back, pulled the trigger, then released the slide with my finger on the trigger. the hammer didn't drop until i let the trigger reset and pulled again. This sounds like AD due to mechanical failure and pointed in a bad direction. Also, what direction was it pointed? was it aimed at people, or at the bench? Need more facts.
     
  21. jad0110

    jad0110 Member

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    Though I agree with what you are trying to say, I think all General Geoff was saying is that none of us are perfect. Therefore, no matter how careful and deligent we may be, we are all capable of having a momentary lapse. The 4 rules overlap for this very reason. I am not advocating carelessness, nor do I think this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy; I do believe that if we all at least acknowledge that yes, stupid can happen to any of us, it can make us even more deligent than we would be otherwise.

    :eek: I for one would love to know how this is even physically possible :p ... and DrLaw, I am not questioning your story ... just scratching my head, that's all.
     
  22. esmith

    esmith Member

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    [​IMG][/url][/IMG]

    I needed to use this one.
     
  23. JTW Jr.

    JTW Jr. Member

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    ND are nothing to be taken likely , and ND can severely injury someone , safety is priority 1.

    However , as much as we all preach gun safety , how much other safety do you practice ? Do you give , lets say driving , the same significance as you do handling a loaded firearm ? do you drive while talking on your cell ? are you reckless weaving in and out of traffic ( perhaps WHILE talking on your cell) ?
    My point is , if you don't practice it all the time , and pay extreme attention , eventually it will happen.

    Wish they would refer to auto accidents as Negligent Driving :)

    cell phones don't kill people , negligent people driving while talking on cell phones kill people.

    ;)
     
  24. hotshotshoting

    hotshotshoting Member

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    if you own guns the odds of you having at least 1 nd, or ad at some point in your life is very high...

    however it is best to try not to ever have that happen but the sad truth is that stupid does happen to everyone human...

    anyone who says that it will never happen to them makes me think about someone who tells me they can have "relations" without a condom and never get someone pregnant just because they know when to "pull out"
     
  25. Matt G

    Matt G Moderator Emeritus

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    I disagree. There are four rules to maintian redundancy for when one or more of them are broken. If any single rule is followed, an accident won't become a tragedy.

    He broke the finger on the trugger rule. He broke the All Guns Are Always Loaded rule. He did keep the Safe Direction rule, inasmuch as the bullet struck table, not skin. The Be Certain Of Your Target rule does not especially apply, here.

    We ARE human. We WILL make mistakes. Make sure that they are minimized by putting multiple safeties between your ears.
     
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