New 4473. Explain please?

[berettaprofessor]

So the reports are that the new 4473 announced yesterday includes a question of whether you live in the city of your address (as opposed to a township or something outside city limits). What legitimate purpose would this question serve the ATF? An address is an address.....unless you want to easily differentiate rural from city folk. Am I just jumping onto a conspiratorial limb?

 

[crestoncowboy]

The 4473 for the past few years has not only asked what race you are... but in an entirely different question asks if you are Hispanic or not Hispanic.

Dumb questions don't surprise me.

 

[trackskippy]

Up until this last move, I always had a PO Box in another town from where I actually lived, and there was no tie to the address of my house to the box. I suppose they want to tie that sort of thing up.

And its probably not just the ATF. The local taxing company tried to fine me for not paying taxes in that jurisdiction. It got pretty silly and entertaining, especially when they said they would start seizing all my stuff for failure to pay my taxes. I just kept saying to show me where I lived in the town, as they must have the records, and Id pay it. They kept referring to the PO Box address. I said if they want to come get my stuff out of the PO Box, it was all theirs. Havent heard a peep since.

 

[forward observer]

The 4473 for the past few years has not only asked what race you are... but in an entirely different question asks if you are Hispanic or not Hispanic.

Dumb questions don't surprise me.

The federal government does not define "Hispanic" as a race but instead as an ethnicity or culture (usually of Latin origin speaking some form of Spanish) but that can be comprised of different racial origins. The census reflects these distinctions too.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...-who-checks-hispanic-who-checks-white-and-why

 

[shoobe01]

Changes, highlighted the bit the OP asked about:

Significant changes in the Revised Form are as follows:

• Any firearm, received by a FFL, that was privately made (not manufactured by another licensee) must now be recorded on the ATF Form 4473. “Privately Made Firearm (PMF)” has been added to item 1, Section A. It now reads: “Manufacturer and Importer, if any or Privately made firearm (PMF) (If the manufacturer and importer are both different, include both)”.

• Question 10 is revised: The transferee/buyer is now asked to answer whether they “Reside in City Limits?” regarding their residence address. For example, if a transferee lists their residence city/state as Phoenix, Arizona but they actually reside outside of the city, they will answer “no” to this item.

• • The following two prohibiting questions have been added to Section B:
    
    • 21b: “Do you intend to purchase or acquire any firearm listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) or ammunition, for sale of other disposition to any person described in questions 21(c)-(m) or to a person described in question 21.n.1 who does not fall within a nonimmigrant exception?”
      
    • 21.c.: “Do you intend to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) or ammunition in furtherance of any felony or other offense punishable by imprisonment for a term of more than one year, a Federal crime of terrorism, or a drug trafficking offense?”
      
• To comply with the BSCA 10-day waiting period on certain transfers involving transferees under the age of 21, Section C of the Form has been revised as follows:
  
  • Prior to the NICS/POC information, an instructional header has been added stating: “Notice: If transferee/buyer is under 21, a waiting period of up to 10 days may apply where notification from NICS is received within 3 business days to further investigate a possible disqualifying juvenile record. A NICS check is only valid for 30 calendar days from the date recorded in question 27a.”
    
  • Item 27.c. was amended to show the date an FFL may transfer a firearm should NICS or the State agency (conducting the background check) not reply stating more time is needed for the check. It now reads next to the delayed check box: “The firearm(s) may be transferred on ____ if time period is not extended by NICS or the appropriate State agency, and State law allows (optional).”
    
  • A box has been added to 27.d. should NICS or the appropriate State agency delay the check as more time is needed to conduct it on a transferee under 21 years of age. It now reads: “Notice of additional delay of transferee under 21 years of age received on _______ (date), and may be transferred on _________ (date)."
    
  • Also added to 27.d. is a box for FFLs to check should no response be received from NICS or the appropriate State agency (for transferees under 21 years of age) within 10 business days after the initial delay was given. It now reads: “No response was provided within 10 business days after initial delay for transferee/buyer under 21.”

ATF says (and its true) that these are mostly things they have to change due to new laws.
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/12/atf-update-on-revised-form-4473/#axzz7n1WsKjzQ

A lot is part of BSCA, which — as far as firearms transfers goes — codified straw purchases, extended the max NICS period from 3 to 10 days under specific circumstances, etc hence all that language.

I suspect however the address thing is that the address part is part of the NICS Denial Notification Act of 2021, which requires reports of denials

“(2) where practicable, report the incident to local law enforcement authorities and State and local prosecutors in the jurisdiction where the firearm was sought and in the jurisdiction where the person resides.​

Not sure where they specifically got that wording from (dunno if something existing codifies this as a federal locating standard) but it seems just that clarifying the e911 address as being in the city or the county to be in compliance with this law is helpful, to notify the city, or the sheriff.

 

[Mn Fats]

The federal government does not define "Hispanic" as a race but instead as an ethnicity or culture (usually of Latin origin speaking some form of Spanish) but that can be comprised of different racial origins. The census reflects these distinctions too.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...-who-checks-hispanic-who-checks-white-and-why

So what? This Hispanic or Non Hispanic information is pertinent to an American citizens purchase of a firearm how?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Can I still select "non-binary" for my non-gender?
And....how exactly would they confirm Im telling the non-truth?

 

[Mn Fats]

Can I still select "non-binary" for my non-gender?
And....how exactly would they confirm Im telling the truth?

No confirmation necessary. In fact, confirmation on that is a micro agression on the government's end. You get a full pass and are now appointed to a position that someone else was more qualified for.

 

[crestoncowboy]

The federal government does not define "Hispanic" as a race but instead as an ethnicity or culture (usually of Latin origin speaking some form of Spanish) but that can be comprised of different racial origins. The census reflects these distinctions too.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...-who-checks-hispanic-who-checks-white-and-why

So what? This Hispanic or Non Hispanic information is pertinent to an American citizens purchase of a firearm how?

Exactly. That was my point. Lol. If one passes the check then why is it even on there

 

[Bfh_auto]

Can I still select "non-binary" for my non-gender?
And....how exactly would they confirm Im telling the non-truth?

That should be an automatic fail. Because you would obviously not be in a proper mental state if you can't tell whether you're a woman or man.

 

[Sistema1927]

The 4473 for the past few years has not only asked what race you are... but in an entirely different question asks if you are Hispanic or not Hispanic.

Dumb questions don't surprise me.

In a prior life, I worked on designing a death and birth certificate system.

There is a difference according to the Feds between Race (Black, White, Asian, Pacific Islander, etc.), and Ethnicity (Hispanic, Non-Hispanic). One of my programmers was Hispanic, and ended up being offended that his race was White, always thinking that being a Latino was a race.

 

[AlexanderA]

So the reports are that the new 4473 announced yesterday includes a question of whether you live in the city of your address (as opposed to a township or something outside city limits). What legitimate purpose would this question serve the ATF?

FFLs are supposed to follow local gun ordinances as well as state and federal laws. The ATF even publishes (or used to publish) a handy booklet listing the relevant local gun ordinances. A residence question on the Form 4473 would help the FFL sort out which local ordinances apply to that individual customer.

 

[FL-NC]

(as opposed to a township or something outside city limits).

Some people aren't even sure what their municipality qualifies as, and that designation is subject to change.

The 4473 for the past few years has not only asked what race you are... but in an entirely different question asks if you are Hispanic or not Hispanic.

I worked at a gun shop when this question was added to the form. We were not informed that this would be added until we got the forms and saw it. I decided to be "that guy" and called them and asked for them to define it to me and they couldn't. They asked me why I needed to know, and I told them that since I was responsible for insuring the form was filled out correctly, I should know- also to explain to customers if they had any questions. In the end, I got no definitive answer.

Dumb questions don't surprise me.

 

[Speedo66]

I live outside a large city in a different actual small city. The post office still lists my zip code and everywhere within about a 10 mile radius outside of that large city as that city.

Real PITA as that city has it's own rules re: firearms, mags, etc. and I've had internet sites tell me they can't ship me certain items because I live in that city, when in reality I don't. Fortunately, I've been able to talk to actual people and work around that.

If my situation is any indicator, I guess the ATF may be trying to figure out where people actually live despite attempts by the post office to obfuscate.

 

[Rubone]

Some years ago there was a huge push for "ACTUAL" physical addresses for all citizens pushed primarily by Homeland Security. I live in a very rural area and one where most roads were unnamed and mail was in cluster boxes at county road intersections. Now despite having mail still in the cluster boxes every address is a physical street number and is determined by the county with google earth locating. It definitely affects taxation as my business address is the same as home so the tax I charge my clients is different than other locations in the county based on town and village limits. This all goes along with Real ID, which requires an actual physical address.
One of the first things I have to do on a building project is establish an actual physical address and assigned number, part of the Rural Addressing Act which theoretically allows EMS/Fire and Law Enforcement to locate anyone by their physical coordinates. And all is done from aerial views.

 

[Rule3]

So the reports are that the new 4473 announced yesterday includes a question of whether you live in the city of your address (as opposed to a township or something outside city limits). What legitimate purpose would this question serve the ATF? An address is an address.....unless you want to easily differentiate rural from city folk. Am I just jumping onto a conspiratorial limb?

Aren't you glad you asked??

 

[Rule3]

How many races are there in the human race?

Wiki User

∙ 7y ago


Best Answer

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One. The "human race" refers to the species homo sapiens, otherwise known as humans. Although we all come in different shapes, colors, and sizes; we are all of the same race/species.

Officially, there are currently five races: Congoid, Capoid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Australoid.

Congoids are most of the people of Sub-Saharan Africa, such as Nigerians and Congolese.

Capoids are a small group of people in South Africa.

Mongoloid is the race encompassing East Asians (ex. Chinese, Japanese, Tibetans), South East Asians (ex. Thai, Malays. Vietnamese, Indonesians), Arctic people (ex. Native Alaskans, Inuits, Aleuts, Samoyed), most Polynesians (ex. Hawaiians) and arguably Native Americans*.

Caucasoid encompasses Europeans (what most people have come to know as "white people"), most South Asians (ex. Indians, Pakistanis), Arabs and Afghans.

Australoid encompasses Melanesians, Aborigines of Australia, Negritos of South East Asia and Veddoids.

*This is debatable, as Native Americans are classified as their own race in several studies.

The 19th century theories of racial superiority held that there are two main racial groups: the Xanthochroi (light skinned peopled sometimes called Nordic, Caucasian, or Aryan) and the Melanchroi (the darker skinned peoples including African, Asian and Australian natives), with the Mediterranean peoples representing a mixture of the two.

This view of the human race fell from favor in the aftermath of World War 2.

More recent studies of population genetics suggest that racial distinctions identified by genetics can produce a large number of "races" but no "pure" races. In other words, everyone has genetics from more than one racial group, however those racial groups may be defined.

 

[tark]

My ancestors are from all over the place, mostly England . I'm about as white as they come. When I was filling out the 4473 for my M-14 I was with a young Black kid, who was obviously in training. I got to the race question and announced that I couldn't find my box.

"What box is that?" the kid asked.

"Generic honky," I responded.

The kid laughed so hard he spilled his coffee.

 

[dogtown tom]

So the reports are that the new 4473 announced yesterday includes a question of whether you live in the city of your address (as opposed to a township or something outside city limits). What legitimate purpose would this question serve the ATF?

A requirement of the NICS Denial Notification Act of 2022, is a requirement that the FBI NICS notify the local PD of the denial. Being that an unincorporated area may also bear the name of an incorporated area, the FBI asks "Reside in city limits" so they know whether to notify the city PD or county.
For example:
Houston, TX 77069 (I used to live there in the late '80's)
It's not actually in the city limits of Houston, but unincorporated Harris County.

An address is an address.....unless you want to easily differentiate rural from city folk.

Except for what required to comply with federal law.

Am I just jumping onto a conspiratorial limb?

Yes, but you have plenty of company.

 

[dogtown tom]

The 4473 for the past few years has not only asked what race you are... but in an entirely different question asks if you are Hispanic or not Hispanic.

Dumb questions don't surprise me.

What information is collected on a Form 4473 or any other federal form is dictated by the Office of Management and Budget. Same with Census and IRS forms. In fact, at my job I deal with special education students who have federal paperwork that asks for Ethnicity and Race exactly as does the ATF Form 4473.

It's not dumb if you know why they ask the way they do.

 

[dogtown tom]

So what? This Hispanic or Non Hispanic information is pertinent to an American citizens purchase of a firearm how?

Because the OMB says ATF has to collect the buyers descriptive information using certain descriptive factors.

 

[crestoncowboy]

What information is collected on a Form 4473 or any other federal form is dictated by the Office of Management and Budget. Same with Census and IRS forms. In fact, at my job I deal with special education students who have federal paperwork that asks for Ethnicity and Race exactly as does the ATF Form 4473.

It's not dumb if you know why they ask the way they do.

For the census and such its not dumb. The whole purpose is demographics.

The purpose of a 4473 (supposedly) is to see if the person is prohibited from owning a gun. Nothing more. A simple ssn and positive ID should be sufficient

I'm pasty white and supposedly have all that privilege I keep hearing about, so to me its not hurting anything. But if the Hispanic gentleman beside me isn't prohibited then it shouldn't matter what else is on there.

 

[dogtown tom]

Can I still select "non-binary" for my non-gender?

Only if the government issued photo ID does not show your gender.

And....how exactly would they confirm Im telling the non-truth?

I would look at the drivers license you just handed me.

 

[tarosean]

Houston, TX 77069 (I used to live there in the late '80's)

My old hood too, before I escaped to the country.

 

[dogtown tom]

For the census and such its not dumb. The whole purpose is demographics.

The purpose of a 4473 (supposedly) is to see if the person is prohibited from owning a gun. Nothing more. A simple ssn and positive ID should be sufficient

Tell that to the OMB.