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New Alliant Sport Pistol

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Alliant Reloading, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. 10

    10 Member

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    I also prefer single based powders and would do fine with N320 over Sport Pistol. Even WST which I prefer in 45 ACP is cool enough burning to do fine with lead and polymer bullets, but it's a bit reverse temp sensitive.
     
  2. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    [​IMG]

    Historic record setting rain for our area finally stopped and wife gave me a break from long list of post-rain "honey do's" to do some range tests with Alliant Sport Pistol.

    As indicated on post #84, Sport Pistol granule is cut extruded powder like N320 but with thinner slices that are slightly smaller in size than larger W231/HP-38 flattened balls - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-alliant-sport-pistol.816514/page-4#post-10559773

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    As expected, Sport Pistol meters very well and consistently dropped charges with less than .1 grain variance from Pro Auto Disk.

    .43 = 4.2 gr
    .46 = 4.5 gr
    .49 = 4.8 gr

    As I mentioned on post #93, smallest .30 disk hole of Pro Auto Disk dropped 10 charges of Sport Pistol from 2.90 gr to 2.94 gr weighed on Gemini-20 digital scale with most of charges being 2.92 gr to 2.94 gr. This is VERY consistent powder charge variance! https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-alliant-sport-pistol.816514/page-4#post-10560187

    Load data for 4" test barrel supplied by Paul was used to develop initial test loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?attachments/sport-pistol-initial-loads-022717-pdf.235357/
    Based on Pro Auto Disk drops, 4.2/4.5/4.8 gr were decided for load development.

    While 1.130" OAL chambered RMR 115 gr FMJ in KKM/Lone Wolf conversion barrels for G22, 1.115" max length was needed for G23 LW barrel with almost no leade and 1.110"-1.113" were used for final OAL as loaded on Pro 1000 with .378" taper crimp for .3555" sized bullets - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...re-sized-the-same.818806/page-2#post-10567453

    Chrono data from Glock 22/KKM conversion barrel and Caldwell chronograph:

    RMR 115 gr FMJ 1.110" OAL (78 F):

    4.2 gr: 1131-1108-1097-Error 2-1071 fps - SD 24 - Average 1101 fps
    4.5 gr: 1188-1108-1142-1170-1184 fps - SD 33 - Average 1158 fps
    4.8 gr: 1196-1199-1241-1218-1227 fps - SD 18 - Average 1216 fps

    Initial 25 yard 10 round shot groups with 17" Just Right carbine, Bushnell 6-18x50mm scope and UTG bipod (using mixed brass and Fiocchi SP primer):

    [​IMG]

    Second 4.8 gr group (blue circle) showed a lot of promise and will be doing more testing at 25/50 yards along with chrono testing with Glock 23 and 9mm conversion barrel.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  3. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Picture of Sport Pistol LOOKS like flattened Ball, assuming you have the granules in the same order as the cans.
    The package label says "Made in the USA FOR Alliant Powder." unlike BE and BE86 "Made with pride in the USA."
    The only other factory in the USA that could make powder FOR somebody is St Marks, the home of Ball Powder.
     
  4. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    No, Sport Pistol is definitely not a ball powder but instead cut extruded powder like N320.

    Close up picture of W231/HP-38 shows shiny but irregular shape of coated balls of different size flattened against each other and cracking causing the textured look while Sport Pistol is cut extruded powder like N320 but cut shorter to look like slices of hot dog. Perhaps Paul could clarify.

    [​IMG]
     

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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  5. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    OK, I was looking at the wrong granules.

    I am still fascinated by the "Made in the USA FOR Alliant Powder" label.
     
  6. Alliant Reloading

    Alliant Reloading Member

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    I am glad to see you have had a chance to start testing the new powder bds. Your sd's don't thrill me though. My beta testers and I have been able to get single digit sd's routinely, so I don't know what is up with that.
    Yes, the product is an extruded cut flake produced at New River Energetics in Radford, VA. I wouldn't read too much into the wording of the made for Alliant Powder. Our marketing group probably just copied the format of our last few new product labels that have been produced in Sweden or Switzerland.
    I have found some other guys have been testing Sport Pistol on the CZ forum, and are seeing exactly what I have. (see link below)
    Two of my testers are using it for 40S&W major, and some 9mm minor with heavy bullet.
    I really don't expect this powder to eclipse BE-86 performance wise, but for light clean loads I believe this powder will prove to be a liner in the gap, to use a baseball metaphor.
    Thanks for your interest in this American made product.
    Shoot well,
    Paul

    http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=89615.45
     
  7. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Thank you for the clarification.
    Keep in mind that I qualified my post with use of mixed brass and Fiocchi primers. I plan to conduct further testing with once-fired same headstamp brass with other primers like Winchester. But what really matters is the holes on target. I was very encouraged by second 4.8 gr shot group as it was forming a single hole group until one shot to top left of group.

    With Sport Pistol metering with less than .05 grain variance, I am looking forward to much smaller groups in future testing.

    I do think match shooters looking for minor power factor loads will find Sport Pistol very suitable powder in the N320-Titegroup-W231/HP-38 burn rate. I am planning to range test RMR 124 gr FMJ/JHP around 130 PF loads next. With Sport Pistol range around 4.5-4.8 gr with 115 gr FMJ, like W231/HP-38, 4.3 gr of Sport Pistol could be the sweet spot for 124 gr bullet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  8. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I picked up a pound of Sport Pistol at the gunshow this AM. $22 and change.

    I didn't care for IMR Target, let's see how this does. Now to figure out what to test it in first. I think target velocity .357 loads first. See how it does in a big case powder back and powder forward. IMR target did very well at that, as did BE-86 (Low velocity loss powder forward away from the primer). I have been wondering if it is a characteristic of the newer formula powders hitting the market.

    I just wish it was lightly colored.
     
  9. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    what didn't you like about target?
     
  10. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    For starters it clung to everything, was dark and hard to see in deep cases, didn't meter all that great, and wasn't overly accurate in the application I tried it in. Nope, I didn't give it another try and a chance to redeem its self. I'll likely not try it again. Did I give up on it too easily? Maybe, but there are so many good choices out there a powder better start off well if it wants a chance with me. :)
     
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  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    My first test for Sport Pistol was in a very light .357 load using an X-Treme 158 Gr SWC at around 700 FPS. Most powders do poorly here when tested powder forward away from the primer as far as velocity loss is concerned. If you are just shooting targets and always point the muzzle up before firing it is not an issue, but if you are walking around and taking shots at angles up and down it is, especially if they are long shots. Sport Pistol was no exception, it lost almost 200 FPS powder forward. No big deal, and not a negative towards the powder, as most do the same thing with very light loads with lots of air space. Very few powders can claim a low velocity loss here. It is compared to N-320 in burn rate in this thread and I love N-320. Both are stick powders, SP is just very short sticks. N-320 also does poorly in the powder forward position as far as velocity loss goes. I like to test all pistol powders like this (Either in light .357 or standard .45 Colt) to check position sensitivity. I shoot them powder back, powder forward, and powder level. The PL ES & SD numbers were the best (Decent, not great), but PL scorched the cases worse than PF.

    Sport Pistol flowed through the measure easily, did not cling to the measure, and charge weights were very consistent. All good things. It is a dark powder but reflected light from the small flashlight aimed inside the case before bullet seating better than some.

    I shot 18 shots on a target 7 yards away with the chrono set at 5 yards which is my usual way to get numbers and an idea of accuracy potential. 15 were in one ragged hole while 2 were low left and 1 was high where I simply didn't get the dot on target before pulling the trigger. The ones down and left were almost certainly me being careless and yanking the trigger. So it was accurate to very accurate in a small test. It took almost a grain more of Sport Pistol than my usual (WST or Competition) powders for this application to get 700 FPS, with a bit more recoil. Nice though.

    The next test is going to be in 9MM with a plated 124 at around 1050 FPS. I use N-320 for this. I suspect Sport Pistol will do well. This seems to be its target audience anyway, reasonable velocities in auto calibers for playing pistol games.

    It will be easy to see the powder in 9MM cases, making its color irrelevant. I need to try it in .45 for target/plinking loads as well, and again, it will be easy to see in the wide short case.

    So my first experience with it overall was positive. Metered well, shot well.
     
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  12. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Thanks for the update.

    Your findings are similar to mine with Sport Pistol targeting and meeting N320/Titegroup/W231/HP-38 burn rate and performance. I have a feeling Sport Pistol will become very popular with action pistol match shooters.

    I have another vacation coming up next week so I will finally get to do some more range tests with different powders including Sport Pistol (Last vacation was ruined by son's house needing bathroom redo and toilet replacement so no time for range test). I picked up Unique and CFE Pistol to do some carbine load comparison with BE-86 and AutoComp.
     
  13. Yotecallr

    Yotecallr Member

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    I'd like to find some around central Iowa but everyone is out of it.
     
  14. Ruger 15151

    Ruger 15151 Member

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    I am really liking the results I am getting with (mm loads. However, the 2 reloading stores in my area haven't started stocking it. I had to it the bullet and pay the hazmat. Powder Valley has had the best price and the hazmat is only $19 through the end of the year.
     
  15. RE-15

    RE-15 Member

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    I find it rather difficult to keep up with all the new powders, and they don't seem to do much more than something that's already out there in use. But I'm sure I will get some anyway.
     
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  16. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    That's what I thought until I range tested the new powders.

    [​IMG]

    When relatively new Promo produced smaller groups than my reference W231/HP-38 (I am on my 5th jug of Promo and yes, Alliant quietly changed the granule size of Promo to meter more consistently - Another thread coming, stay tuned) with smaller ES/SD numbers and shot groups, I began to wonder as more powder work ups were conducted.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Take a look at this 10 shot group of Sport Pistol that's circled. Mind you, I am using mixed range brass that have been reloaded several times and this Sport Pistol group with slight vertical stringing with one shot to top left shows great promise.

    [​IMG]

    I am working toward the "Mother Of All Bullet and Powder Comparison" thread with various jacketed/plated/coated bullets and powders but here's what I have so far - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...d-you-use-and-why.825314/page-3#post-10702392
     

    Attached Files:

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  17. Ruger 15151

    Ruger 15151 Member

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    Here's what I am getting consistently out of my M&P CORE 5" stock barrel @15 yards with Sport Pistol and range brass. This stuff meters like water and is extremely clean as well.

    upload_2017-12-8_21-13-20.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
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  18. Alliant Reloading

    Alliant Reloading Member

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    Good stuff fellas!
     
  19. JimKirk

    JimKirk Member

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    Paul ... Any 357 SIG Data floating around on your desk that you could share?
     
  20. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    Or 10mm with 180-200gr....?
     
  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I suspect it would be too fast for full power 10MM, but there is no reason it wouldn't make good midrange loads. Perhaps Paul (Alliant Reloading) will let us know.
     
  22. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    Well they’re still getting my money. BlueDot is my favorite 10mm powder.
     
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  23. Alliant Reloading

    Alliant Reloading Member

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    Sorry, no data was shot for the 357Sig, as I really didn't consider that a relevant cartridge for this powder burn speed. Or maybe, the Sport Pistol(TM) and others in that burn speed range aren't really relevant powders for that beast.
    Same basic story for the 10mm Automatic, although I did work up loads for our Syntech 165gr TSJ bullet. It isn't the bullet weight you were asking about, but starting load is 6.1gr for 1134ft/sec, and maximum is 6.8gr for 1213ft/sec from the SAAMI chamber test barrel. COAL for that was 1.250" with Federal brass and Fed150 primer.
    Shoot well,
    Paul
     
  24. JimKirk

    JimKirk Member

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    Paul ... after reading you comments ... I shook the few marbles left around and realised that SP is Bullseye speed ... for some reason I had Blue Dot stuck in my mind ...

    I gather Data for the 357 SIG when ever I can ... that was the reason I asked ....

    My bad on this case ... I should have re-read ...
     
  25. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    From my range testing and confirmed by Paul, Sport Pistol burn rate is around N320/Titegroup/W231/HP-38.

    I use 4.8 gr of W231/HP-38 for 115 gr FMJ as 4.8 gr produced slightly more accurate groups than 4.6 gr. Same thing for Sport Pistol as it produced more accurate groups with 4.8 gr than 4.5 gr - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-alliant-sport-pistol.816514/page-5#post-10702450

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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