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New AR, first round hangs.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by ID-shooting, Jun 28, 2013.

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  1. ID-shooting

    ID-shooting Member

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    New low-end AR, M4 clone. With 1, 10, or 30 rounds in any mag the first round hangs on feeding. Open bolt, lock to rear, insert mag, hit bolt release, hangs up about halfway stripping out the mag. Hit the forward assist, rifle goes into battery and away we go. 100% feed, fire, extract, and eject once first round is fed (300 rounds so far)

    Clean and lube to GI standards didn't change anything.

    Never had a NIB AR before, especially the years I was in the Army. Dug out my old armorer manuals, not much help there. I am thinking being a low-end gun the 4 rails on the BCG could use some polishing or the gun just needs a good break-in. Leaning to digging the finish stones out since ammo price is still bit high for just breaking in.

    What does the collective have to say about this?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  2. M1key

    M1key Member

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    Have you tried charging it by using the T-handle?

    M
     
  3. ID-shooting

    ID-shooting Member

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    Grabbed a dummy round, tried feeding by inserting mag, pulling charging handle to rear and letting go. Still hangs. One tap on the forward assist sent it home. (Wife is staring at me now, thanks lol)

    Same results with different mags. All GI, some new, some not, mix of green and tan followers.

    I guess I know what all those SPORTS drills where about now. LoL
     
  4. M1key

    M1key Member

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    Does your carbine have M4 feed ramps? If it is an "entry-level" AR it might not...

    Have you tried a mag with no-tilt follower like a Pmag?

    Do your mags fit loose (front to back play) or fit snugly?

    Factory ammo, fmj bullets, hollow points, soft points, or reloads?

    What make is it? Your AR should load easily with most mags and ammo. Hard to call without hands on inspection. Maybe the mags aren't seating deep enough? Keep trying. If nothing works call manufacturer.

    Good luck.

    M
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  5. ID-shooting

    ID-shooting Member

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    No, no m4 feed ramps, but the round hangs before the ramps. Have not tried other than GI mags. Ammo tried is PMC xp193, Rem 223, Norinco brass 55gr 223, WPA steel, Tula steel, Herters steel, and green-tip GI. All new, no reloads yet.

    Am giving the mags a "love tap" like all good GI's should.

    Rifle is a DT Sport. https://www.del-ton.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DTSPORT
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  6. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    huh, weird. can you take a picture of it where it hangs before you hit the assist?
     
  7. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    What the other guys said. Also, what I'd try/see is to see if the magazine is held up/high enough by pushing/holding the magazine up in the well while dropping the bolt. It could be that the magazine release isn't holding the mag properly.
    Just a thought. Good luck.
     
  8. ID-shooting

    ID-shooting Member

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    Here is one
     

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  9. ID-shooting

    ID-shooting Member

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    Here is another. Holding the mag made no change. As for loose vs. snug. They seem to "fit." Not tight, not loose. Easy to inert and remove but not much shake side to side or end to end.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  10. M1key

    M1key Member

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    Bolt is riding over the back of the cartridge. Apparently the bolt ain't picking up the round on the first try, but will under normal cycling. It would be interesting to try another bolt to see if that helps.

    If you can't resolve this, I would definitely give Delton a call.

    M
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  11. Jackal

    Jackal Member

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    I had the same problem with a Delton a few years ago. Turned out it was a burr on the front (barrel end) of the buffer tube, snagging on the spring. After smoothing the burr, turns out the whole buffer tube was bent inside/tweaked. Got a new one and voila, worked perfect.
     
  12. adelbridge

    adelbridge Member

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    probably 80% or more of all AR FTF is magazine related. Entry level gun=CHEAP magazine every time.
     
  13. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    ...not applicable
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  14. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    But he said he can't chamber the first round, even when he only has 1 round in the mag.

    rc
     
  15. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    You are right RC, I didn't read his post well enough.
    If it does it no matter how many are loaded that is not the issue.
    The title already had me thinking of an issue when I scanned the post.
     
  16. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    It sounds like you've tried to send plenty different types of factory ammo downrange.
    I'd send it back to the manufacturer. An AR should work with any magazine and good military/factory loads. period
     
  17. popper

    popper Member

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    Check the mag lips to spec. Bend them to get the nose pointed UP more. I don't give mine a 'love' tap, I whack em good to make sure the base is fully to the rear.
     
  18. Warp

    Warp Member

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    I think some people aren't reading the OP or aren't thinking.

    If he has tried so many different magazines, and this exact same thing happens on every one, I HIGHLY doubt it is a mag problem.

    Also, he said he has tried pulling the charging handle back AND locking the bolt back then hitting the bolt release. It clearly isn't a problem of not pulling it back all the way or riding it forward.
     
  19. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    I would try a different buffer spring. When you release the bolt manually, the only energy imparted to the BCG is whatever is stored in the spring. It sounds like you don't have enough bolt velocity from a static start.
     
  20. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    One of those fuzzy/funky pictures looked like the bolt had over-ridden the case. But then he preceded those/that pic saying that he'd be able to chamber the round with the forward assist. Maybe I'm wrong with the picture but if it's over-ridden, the forward assist will be of no assist.
     
  21. mtrmn

    mtrmn Member

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    The 4 rails on the bolt carrier you spoke of maybe smoothing -- you DO have adequate lube on these right?

    I know you've tried numerous mags--do any of the feed lips show signs of rubbing on the bolt or carrier? IE-finish scraped off to bare metal etc?

    It appears in the pics that the bolt tends to stop in the same place every time--is this the case? If so, hand cycle the action without the mag very slowly--do you feel any added resistance when the bolt reaches the hangup point?
    Now do the same thing with an empty mag in place and hold the bolt catch in normal position so it will not interfere when you pull the charging handle back. The bolt should ride fairly smoothly all the way open and closed without any bumps/drags along the way.

    I have also seen the head of the cam pin rubbing in its channel in the top of the upper receiver--check the channel and cam pin for bright spots. If the gas key screws have been aggressively staked, it can displace enough metal that a burr can rub in the upper receiver as well.

    This does not appear to be the case with your gun due to the bolt position when it stops, but if the gas tube does not line up with the gas key it can cause a hangup also.
     
  22. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    You have one of those "no go" gauges. It don't go. I can't believe the extent you've tried to make this thing go.
     
  23. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Feed ramps match, right? Carbine/carbine, rifle/rifle....
     
  24. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    Code for toothed maw/locking lugs situated just so? send that thing back
     
  25. ID-shooting

    ID-shooting Member

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    Here is what do know, the bolt is not overiding. It is firmly pushing back of the case. Pushing the forward assist sends the round into the chamber, bolt into battery, and the rifle fires. The rifle runs fine after the first round is in. This is only happening on the first round. Not a mag issue. Unless 11 magazines ranging from new commercial, new GI, to very well used GI who went through both Iraq and Afghanistan all have the same flaw. No mag with slow manual cycle creates no hang ups. Manual cycling doesn't feel as smooth as used guns.

    If it were bad lips, bore, assembly, the rifle would stop during firing. This isn't the case. Gun cycles 100% under recoil.

    It seems there is too much drag for inertia to overcome or the spring isn't providing enough force to counter the drag of the bolt and magazine together.

    I think it is one of two things, or both. Poor polish/over coating of bolt carrier or weak recoil spring. If spring, a wolfe extra power spring should do the trick but I worry short stroking. If rough finish, gut should break it but I also wonder about helping that along.

    I see no reason to ditch a rifle that otherwise works as intended. Logic and mechanics will sort it out. Why take the easy road?
     
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