New Auto Breech Lock Pro

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FYI the Hornady LnL AP case feeder has a small rifle and large rifle feeder plate. Somebody thinks you can "load" large rifle on that press. What actually happens is using the case feeder for sizing/decapping and then coming back with trimmed cases being fed only to powder drop/expand and seat/crimp, priming optional..
 
Rule3 said:
I wonder how many people load RIFLE rounds on a progressive press and why exactly it is a"bad Idea"
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It has been interesting to see how home use of the progressive press has evolved.

Dillon originally designed his 1050 to reload 5.56 x 45mm/.223...that's why it included a swagging station. The next cartridge introduced for that press was the .45ACP...because so many IPSC shooters were using military brass to feed their 1911s.

When folks wanted to to reload other cartridges, primarily the 7.62 x 51mm, he introduced the 550. He introduced the Square Deal to answer the demand to reload large quantities of 9mm and .38 Super.

That folks want to reload rifle cartridges on presses designed primarily to reload handgun cartridges has always surprised me.

I reload mostly handgun cartridges, 10-15k/yr, so a progressive press is most suited to my needs. If I reloaded for rifle, I'd likely get a Dillon 550 or a Co-Ax
 
RealGun said:
Somebody thinks you can "load" large rifle on that press. What actually happens is using the case feeder for sizing/decapping and then coming back with trimmed cases being fed only to powder drop/expand and seat/crimp, priming optional.
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The Dillon 1050 will do it all in one pass on the press...you just need to use the right press.

And now there are more options on the market with the introduction of the Mark 7 Evolution
 
Rule3 said:
I wonder how many people load RIFLE rounds on a progressive press and why exactly it is a"bad Idea"

Anyway, no one know anything about the "capability" of this new press so who knows how strong it is. It's all speculation.

loading 308 on a Hornady but he didn't get the memo.:)

http://ultimatereloader.com/2013/10/24/tips-to-optimize-progressive-rifle-loading/

30-06



Click to expand...


I didn't get the memo either. Loaded 556/223 and 308W on my LNL-AP just have to do 2 runs due to brass prep.
 
That is a strange version history.
Mike Dillon's first product was a rifle caliber conversion for the fine old Star Universal Progressive.
Then we have the progression from 350 to 450 to 550.
Somewhere in there he brought out the 1000 as a commercial machine, later replaced by the less expensive 1050. Which is why you don't get a lifetime guarantee on a 1050, it was meant for the commercial loader as something to be run all day every day for calibers in less demand than you would get a Camdex for. A local commercial reloader has one or two Camdex, three or four 1050s, and rows upon rows of 550 and 650 machines some left set up in one caliber, some with multiple tool heads for various calibers of the same head diameter.

The Square Deal is a pistol only machine with a small bench footprint. Its main purpose is to get Internet Experts' knickers in a twist as they protest that it will not accept standard Pacific style dies.
 
Back to the Breech Lock Pro. lol

The case feeder. Looks to be a spring to bring the case back in to the shell plate. But what pushes the case feeder out to pick up a new case? There looks to be a metal band off to the side of the edge.The metal band appears to connect under the shell plate carrier. A cam maybe? Maybe not. Not big enough for the lift and duration to cycle the case feeder.

Anyone care to speculate?
 
Lee is working feverishly on the case feeder.....they have 18 more days to perfect it!:p:D more speculation of course!....I am NOT an insider with a beta press. Boy! Would that be fun.......shucks if RCBS had let us here at THR have beta presses they wouldn't be in the mess they're in now!;)

BTW Walkalong,
Walkalong said:
I thought of that way of making plates index correctly years ago. I wonder if Lee would believe me or give me a cut. :D
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The Pro Chuckers have your plate alignment pin too.....did they pay you for it? We could start a petition......

I change my cast iron base predictions to steel....I don't think it is aluminum.....reason for the prediction change? The new replacement basic turret press has a similar base and Lee advertises it as steel. So that's what the support columns are screwed in. At the top of the turret, Lees says the turret is surrounded by a steel frame with rifle type "lugs" to prevent alignment problems.

That knowledge leads me to believe that the top that screws into the 3 steel columns must be steel as well on the new progressive. Showing a picture of the new basic turret below: Look at the similar base appearance to the new progressive.
index.php
index.php

BYW! I am not a fan of the crank handle, no, not even the aftermarket ones. Not my idea for help with arthritis......I like balls that don't require wrist contortions during the stroke. Cross grip shovel handles are for shoveling manure.;)
 
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Bang! said:
Back to the Breech Lock Pro. lol

The case feeder. Looks to be a spring to bring the case back in to the shell plate. But what pushes the case feeder out to pick up a new case? There looks to be a metal band off to the side of the edge.The metal band appears to connect under the shell plate carrier. A cam maybe? Maybe not. Not big enough for the lift and duration to cycle the case feeder.

Anyone care to speculate?
Click to expand...


11 pages, 260 posts and the sucker isn't even out yet!:what:
 
But we're having a hell of a lot of fun......show me another thread this fun! Thanks for the party, Rule3! :cool:
(are we putting the pressure on Lee, or what! 4,316 views and counting.)
 
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GW Staar said:
Lee is working feverishly on the case feeder.....they have 18 more days to perfect it!:p:D more speculation of course!....I am NOT an insider with a beta press. Boy! Would that be fun.......shucks if RCBS had let us here at THR have beta presses they wouldn't be in the mess they're in now!;)

BTW Walkalong,


The Pro Chuckers have your plate alignment pin too.....did they pay you for it? We could start a petition......

I change my cast iron base predictions to steel....I don't think it is aluminum.....reason for the prediction change? The new replacement basic turret press has a similar base and Lee advertises it as steel. So that's what the support columns are screwed in. At the top of the turret, Lees says the turret is surrounded by a steel frame with rifle type "lugs" to prevent alignment problems.

That knowledge leads me to believe that the top that screws into the 3 steel columns must be steel as well on the new progressive. Showing a picture of the new basic turret below: Look at the similar base appearance to the new progressive.
index.php
index.php

BYW! I am not a fan of the crank handle, no, not even the aftermarket ones. Not my idea for help with arthritis......I like balls that don't require wrist contortions during the stroke. Cross grip shovel handles are for shoveling manure.;)
Click to expand...

What mess is RCBS in?

Also good catch on the bases, it look like its actually the same base, ram, lever, and primer catcher on both presses.
 
Bang! said:
Back to the Breech Lock Pro. lol

The case feeder. Looks to be a spring to bring the case back in to the shell plate. But what pushes the case feeder out to pick up a new case? There looks to be a metal band off to the side of the edge.The metal band appears to connect under the shell plate carrier. A cam maybe? Maybe not. Not big enough for the lift and duration to cycle the case feeder.

Anyone care to speculate?
Click to expand...

Interesting analysis, I hadn't noticed the spring before so I went back and looked at it.
I don't no why Lee would not just use that Z wire design that's already on the Loadmaster and Pro 1000, it works without a lot drama or fiddling.
What you see as a spring could have a solid wire inside of it...even Z shaped :uhoh:
or would a tightly wound extension spring act like a rod when pushed on :confused:.
Just more speculation,
:D
 
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hdwhit said:
When I first saw it, Lee had my attention, but when I added up the cost of the press, shell plate, a set of dies, case feeder, bullet feeder, primer feeder and press-activated powder measure, it came up to nearly $400.

Once they get they get the inevitable bugs worked out of new product like this that is having to deal with all the variables of cases, bullets and primers from all over the world, it might be something to look into.

In the meantime, my attention wandered back to my Reloader Special.
Click to expand...

My experience with the case feeder on the Loadmaster, which appears to be the same basic design, says its only marginally useful and I'd gladly do without.. The Lee bullet feeders look like any time you save using them is paid for in time loading bullets into the feeder since they lack a collimator as in the very expensive bullet feeders for the Dillion, so I see them as a gimmick -- like Dillon's 650 rounds per hour rating on the XL 650 (which I have) -- sure its valid if you have someone else to load the primer tubes, pour cases into the case feeder and open the bullet boxes while you are loading :)

I have the dies, powder measure and primer feeder from my Classic Turret that I'd be looking to update.

I'd have loved my Loadmaster fore this if I could have ever gotten the primer system to go more than a few hundred rounds without major screwups.

I have a pair of Dillon XL650s for my high volume shooitng dedicated to 9mm and .45ACP loading, and a Classic Turret for my "low volume" calibers -- .38Special, .357, .38Super, 10mm, & .380ACP. You'd think that since I'm retired, production rate wouldn't be an issue but I shoot more now and my days fly by so fast with that and all my other activities that I'm mystified how I wver got anything done while I was working!
 
1. It allows you to have a supply of primed brass for when you decide what you want to load. I have a couple thousand match cases sized and primed waiting for when I decide which load and bullet I'm going to use this season.
1a. Priming on a progressive isn't as consistent; makes a difference in stacking tolerances in match ammo
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Lets be clear here, we are talking handgun reloading, right. If not stop reading now. Unless you are regularly threatening to win 2700 bullseye matches I can't see how this makes any difference to be worth the extra time and hassle, even then I'm skeptical of the claim that any of this matters for handgun loads.

Reloading can be a hobby in its own right playing with the endless combinations powders, bullets, primers etc. , but if like most, you'd rather be shooting than reloading you'd have standardized on your loads long before you considered getting a progressive press!

3. Running pre-sized cases through a progressive allows for more consistent OAL in the finished loaded round
Huh? The seater/crimper is the seater crimper. If this matters it'd argue you should be doing progressive loading at all.

A couple of thousand pre-primed cases won't last me a month. If a couple thousand lasted a year, I wouldn't need a progressive press!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
wally said:
Lets be clear here, we are talking handgun reloading, right. If not stop reading now. Unless you are regularly threatening to win 2700 bullseye matches I can't see how this makes any difference to be worth the extra time and hassle, even then I'm skeptical of the claim that any of this matters for handgun loads.

Reloading can be a hobby in its own right playing with the endless combinations powders, bullets, primers etc. , but if like most, you'd rather be shooting than reloading you'd have standardized on your loads long before you considered getting a progressive press!
Click to expand...

This leads me to a standard question I sometimes ask:
Are you a reloader who shoots, or a shooter who reloads :uhoh:
:D
 
It's a simple test.

Load some rounds while resizing and measure OAL variance.

Load some rounds with pre-resized brass and measure OAL variance.

If your OAL variance is less with pre-resized brass, then there's your answer.

That's it.
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A more important question/ test is how much does the OAL variation affect the accuracy? Unless this decrease is on the same order as your shooting ability variance, odds are you are past the point of diminishing returns as net variance = sqrt( yourVariance^2 + ammoVariance^2) in which case less time reloading and more time shooting would likely lead to better results :)

The 50 yard 2700 X-ring is ~1.7" or about 3.4 moa -- garbage ammo by rifle standards! The B-16 25 yard target is only a little "tighter" at ~2.5 moa X-ring The 10-rings are about twice this size.

A gun/ammo that keeps them all in the X-ring when fired from a machine rest is sort of the the holy grail for bullseye shooters. This may be out of date, but I think the record in a sanctioned match is 2680-159X
 
Jim Watson said:
The Square Deal is a pistol only machine with a small bench footprint. Its main purpose is to get Internet Experts' knickers in a twist as they protest that it will not accept standard Pacific style dies.
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Six months ago Jim I might have taken exception to this but not today. In the past I actually have crossed the SDB off my shopping list because I already have 4 sets of 9mm dies. But then again, the dies on the SDB account for about 1/10th of the unit cost. So I think that if I might want a dedicated 9mm press that will crank out the ammos at a steady rate then the SDB is worth getting in spite of the situation with the dies. I think it not noble to make a decision like this based on 40.00 or 50 dollars.

I think I might have mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread that I think Lee is trying to produce a press that will run head to head with the SDB. It will not work plain and simple but I expect that many posters on the interwebs will claim victory over the Blue juggernaut. There is a general feeling I get when reading about the new Lee press that makes me snicker. Why is it that there are some who simply cannot understand or except that you get what you pay for and with this thing you are not paying much but still expecting a lot? All the speculation about bullet and case feeders and not a soul has even seen one let alone tried it out yet.

I'm sure this press will work. The 96% plastic Lee Load-All shot shell loader works. However it is not going to live up to the claims being made by the many. That doesn't mean that I will never own or use one. I might own an LCT even, but at this stage of my life I personally need a press that is less stress and more productive. In short, Richard Lee is not Santa. He is not giving anyone something for nothing.
 
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Don't get me wrong, Thomas, I consider the SDB to be a great 9mm machine.
It was an annoyance to me on .45, the low leverage required a lot of effort to get even mostly well seated primers. That was the reason I jumped past 550 and 650 to a 1050, it really socks the primers home, even if it did take six years to amortize. Then I got a Deal on a 550 which I now use mostly for 9mm with the occasional production run of .38 Special. I have a 550 setup for .45 in case I want to try something very different without upsetting the 1050 (Turns out I hardly ever have anything that different.) and .44-40 left over from CAS days.
 
Thomas15

Thank you for another objective, fact based, first-hand- knowledge-by-someone-who-does-not-own-one review of a LCT or Pro1000!

After all, it’s not as if you go around posting similar Lee Derangement Syndrome rants on every second thread in this subforum.
 
thomas15 said:
Richard Lee is not Santa.
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Ummmm ... You mean John Lee?

wally said:
I'd have loved my Loadmaster fore this if I could have ever gotten the primer system to go more than a few hundred rounds without major screwups.
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And I think that may be the reason why Lee went with Safety Prime for Pro 4000/Auto Breech Lock Pro. It is another option for those who may prefer the Safety Prime option.
 
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