New Bullseye?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by 9mmepiphany, Dec 3, 2016.

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  1. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    Just a nagging question that I thought I'd share:

    If we accept that BE-86 is the new Unique, what is the new Bullseye?
     
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  2. Shootshellz

    Shootshellz Member

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    I thought Accurate Arms #5 was the new Unique. I would vote Accurate Arms #2 as the new Bullseye.
     
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  3. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    From what I'm told BE-86 and Power Pistol are made in the same way and PP had a BE-xxx designation before it was standardize to a canister powder. There is no new Bullseye, at least yet.
     
  4. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    IMR is coming out with a new line a powders which all hint at Alliant names. I believe one is called Target which is supposed to be the new Bullseye. They also have Red, Green, and Blue which you can guess the equivalents of. Unequal is supposed to be Unique.

    I had also heard that BE-86 was more or less a slightly different formula of PP with a flash suppressant.
     
  5. DeadEye9

    DeadEye9 Member

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    From everything I've seen, BE 86 is similar to Unique and PP but offers a bit more velocity in most common calibers. I haven't had time to get any chamber pressure readings yet so I've only read the load Data that has been sent to me but the results are positive. In .45, .40 and 9mm overall this stuff seems to really shine in velocity. I'm also hearing that it is well flash suppressed in low light which is a definite plus.
     
  6. Shootshellz

    Shootshellz Member

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    Hopefully not another 'new and improved' Madison Avenue scam where basically the same old stuff is sold for more ca$h from the consumer. Whatever happened to 'old and unchanged'?
     
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  7. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    Newer powders are usually a bit less expensive as they have a simplified manufacturing process. I think I paid $127 for my last 8lb jug of BE-86...and that included all fees, shipping and taxes
     
  8. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    The last time I went to the store, the "new" Bullseye was Bullseye, so I bought 3 pounds of it.
     
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  9. midland man

    midland man Member

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    so is bullseye been discontinued??
     
  10. drband

    drband Member

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    Nope.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
  11. DeadEye9

    DeadEye9 Member

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    Yea that's not a bad price at all. My local shop sells it around $18 a LB, so after paying hazmat and all that to have it shipped that's a decent price.
     
  12. Shootshellz

    Shootshellz Member

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    In my neck of the woods there is no such animal as powders going down in price, whether newfangled or oldfangled. And it would seem to me since Bullseye has been around since 1903 (I believe) they should have been able to simplify the manufacturing process long ago.
     
  13. savanahsdad

    savanahsdad Member

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    At 5grs a round ,my 6 lbs should last me a long time .
     
  14. KansasSasquatch

    KansasSasquatch Member

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    They did. That's why it's usually $20 to $25/lb instead of $40. Smokeless powder isn't as simple to make, in a safe manner, as blackpowder. I could whip up some black powder in my shed if I wanted to, but I wouldn't even think about trying it with smokeless powder. They could change the formula to make it easier/cheaper, but then it wouldn't really be Bullseye. The newer powders are supposed to be easier/faster to make and with burn rates similar to some of the old powders. I doubt prices will go down though.
     
  15. DeadEye9

    DeadEye9 Member

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    I get ~1500 rounds out of 1 pound of HP-38/W231 with one of my 9mm target loads which is 4.5gr, so you should see Similar figures per lb. Muliply that by the six lbs you have and yea, you will be good for a little while on that front. Just remember though, too much is never enough!
     
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  16. kcofohio
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    kcofohio Contributing Member

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    In 1903, the EPA, and most other regulatory departments were not around.
     
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  17. Shootshellz

    Shootshellz Member

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    What does the EPA have to do with simplifying production?
     
  18. Alliant Reloading

    Alliant Reloading Member

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    So, you guys think we need a new version of Bullseye(R)?
    Actually, that's a pretty interesting idea.
    What do you guys think, maybe a super clean burning, great charging version of American Select(R), or domestic, cost effective version of N320? It would have to have versatile ballistics like 231, but much cleaner burning. What do you think?
    Let me see what I can come up with, but I'm not sure it would really be a replacement for Bullseye, which is a powder that has passed the test of time, and is still one of our best sellers. You can't even imagine how much Bullseye we use to load ammunition at our two facilities.
    See me at the SHOT Show next month, and maybe I'll have something for you.
    And by the way, thank you for recognizing the excellence of our "modern Unique(R)", BE-86. That stuff really is awesome and versatile.
    Shoot well,
    Paul
     
  19. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Put all three of those into the same powder and you'd have a winner. AS is great stuff but doesn't meter great and a lot of folks won't use it for that reason. (Many other powders as well). AA #2 is the poor mans N320, meters great, usually gives excellent ES numbers, is "forgiving" when getting near the top, and is one of the most position insensitive powders I have tried. (Another good attribute to try to achieve)

    So, an American Select/N320/AA#2/W231ish burn rate powder with small kernels that meters well, burns clean, isn't picky about powder position in large cases as far as FPS goes, not dripping with graphite, burns thoroughly and clean, cost effective, did I miss something? Oh yes, light colored like W-231/WST/AA#2/Competition so we can see it in the case easily when seating a bullet.

    IMHO of course. :)
     
  20. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    For my uses this would be great

    But other than that, I'd second what Walkalong recommends
     
  21. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    It's nice to see a major player listening to the voices of it's customers. Not only that, they actually talk to them instead of talking down to them. This make me respect Alliant more than I ever did. Great PR!
     
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  22. kcofohio
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    kcofohio Contributing Member

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    Nothing to do with simplifying. But added cost to dispose of waste and training and such to stay within the regulations that were not in place at a prior time. Maybe I misunderstood, but I assumed your post was primarily about the cost.
     
  23. splattergun

    splattergun Member

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    What I'd like to know is, if BE86 is the new Unique, where is the shotgun data?
     
  24. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    +1 to Walkalong and larry's posts. For decades, I have used WSF for full power/duplicate factory loads for higher velocities it provided. I am glad Alliant/Vista Outdoor decided to release BE-86 as canister powder as it has produced more accurate loads than my long standing reference 9mm/40S&W loads.

    For me, I do not believe we need a new version of Bullseye which downloads well to produce accurate bullseye match/light target loads.

    IMHO, what we do need is a new version of Red Dot/Promo that meters well. I am a fan of Promo which is my current powder of choice for 9mm/45ACP pistol plinking and carbine loads. Promo has produced very acceptable level of accuracy and has actually produced more accurate loads than W231/HP-38 on my pistol caliber carbine threads. I am currently working to build a machine rest for pistol/carbine testing and will resume comparison testing of jacketed/plated bullets using pistols/carbines - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/carbine-load-testing-with-mixed-range-brass-plated-bullets-in-9mm-40s-w-45acp.799231/page-3#post-10245856

    [​IMG]

    During the "Great component shortage", I tested different powders to use as substitute for popular powders like W231/HP-38 that became unobtainiums and found Alliant's Green Dot to be closest and posted on THR's same/comparable powder thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/same-comparable-close-powders-under-different-labels.797388/page-4#post-10286533

    Paul, if Alliant is able to produce cost effective version of N320 (which is considered by many match shooters as "the" 9mm powder), that would be great. While I like the flexibility of W231/HP-38 to load 9mm/40S&W/45ACP target loads, it is temperature sensitive for meeting power factor and if Alliant is able to produce clean burning version of W231/HP-38/N320 that is less temperature sensitive, you will get interest of many match shooters.

    BTW, I use W296/H110 for .300 BLK and many claim Alliant's Power Pro 300 MP is comparable powder. Paul, there's no published 300 MP load data for .300 BLK. Is that something you can work on?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
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  25. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    Paul, is BE-86 more akin to Unique? I had read it was similar to Power Pistol with a flash suppressant. Perhaps my info was bad. I just got a pound of BE-86 this past weekend, and I am anxious to try it in my .45 Colt.
     
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