New Caliber - 300 AAC Blackout

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6.8 SPC is also hotter than the 1360 ft lbs that 125gr .300 BLK makes.

Small point, but the last claim I saw for the upcoming factory UMC 125gr load is 2320fps in a 16" barrel, which equals 1493 ft-lbs. Still less than many 6.8 SPC loads, but not by a lot. The recently to market 125gr OTM match is loaded for accuracy, not velocity. There are also some handload reports that are hotter still, but as handloads it's hard to know if they are within SAAMI pressure.
 
Anyone remember the 6.5mm T/CU and 7mm T/CU? Those are necked up .223 cases. According to the Speer Reloading Manual #13 the 7mm T/CU is pushing 115 -120 grain bullets out of a 14" bbl. at velocities within 200 FPS of 6.8 SPC out of a 16" bbl. Can we get a manufacturer to revive the 6.5mm and/or 7mm T/CU concept? Until then the .300 BLK looks quite promising.
 
300aacblk110grbarnessma.jpg
 
what's on the market in terms of subsonic ammo?

Remington 220gr OTM subsonic

Gunn Ammo 220gr OTM subsonic

CMMG 175gr, but probably not a great choice

Any .300 Whisper - Hornady has one load, I believe Cor-Bon has one or two

Of course most people looking to do subsonic are also looking to handload. Official factory load data for Hodgdon, AA and Ramshot powders is available now.
 
ugaarguy said:
Anyone remember the 6.5mm T/CU and 7mm T/CU? Those are necked up .223 cases. According to the Speer Reloading Manual #13 the 7mm T/CU is pushing 115 -120 grain bullets out of a 14" bbl. at velocities within 200 FPS of 6.8 SPC out of a 16" bbl. Can we get a manufacturer to revive the 6.5mm and/or 7mm T/CU concept? Until then the .300 BLK looks quite promising.
I don't know how serious or if you were being sarcastic but it's funny you mention that since I've been thinking about this recently just getting fully into ARs about a year ago.
I'd never heard of wildcatting until recently but it made me wonder why this never caught on for hunting with ARs. The minimum caliber in AL to deer hunt I believe is around .243 (6mm). I know that .243 is coming with a lot more velocity/energy but a 6.5mm or 6.8mm + .223 case as long as the ballistics and expansion are right should easily be good for deer and still have decent terminal performance, shouldn't it?

Edit:
Just read that even the 7mm T/CU is on the marginal side of taking down deer but this article dates back to 2005. With advances in powders like the 300 takes advantage of shouldn't this be more of a reality now?
http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w7mmtcu.html

Do you think it's because ARs were too expensive or too crazy an idea at the time for hunters to get into wildcatting vs. their cheaper bolt and auto rifles?
I know this is a little off topic but still interesting in the 6.8 vs 300 debate.
 
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I see that what the .300BO does promise is exciting. What's missing are the actual products and real world numbers, in performance and retail.

So far, what we have is largely internet vaporware, SHOT show announcements, and a lot of talk about what might happen. Rather than speculate about it, most of the shooters I know are reaching into guncases and pulling out something that they can use NEXT WEEK ON THE OPENING DAY OF DEER SEASON.

Me, I've got a 6.8 dissipator ready NOW, not a vaporware .300BO I can simulate carrying. Line up all the 6.8's out there in the field NEXT WEEK, vs. the .300BO's, and it's sadly outnumbered 1000 to 1. I speculate that if we only counted guns with suppressors actually mounted on them, there would still be more 6.8s.

Speculative comparison of ballistics aside, at this point in time, thousands of owners use anything but .300BO, because it simply isn't available or a known quantity. Once it is baselined, it will likely be about 85% of what the hype promises, as usual. There's any number of recent case histories to point that out in the last ten years, 6.8 front and center.

There's the real issue, the main focus of comparison in a lot of the AR Caliber Wars is the 6.8. Must be something there if it's important enough to bother. Think about that -
 
Tirod,

I see your point but 6.8 has been around for how many years now? 7-8? .300BLK has only been out maybe 2 years?

My point is that that 6.8 has been around longer, so its logical that it will have more current users, makers, aftermarketers, fanboys, etc. Also I don't think AAC has done really any serious marketing yet other than internet and word of mouth.

Give it more time, given the almost daily addition of more companies coming on board with new .300BLK products, in a couple more years .300BLK will have more market share.

Regardless of which cartridge you prefer, I am really enjoying the amount of talk and products being directed at the AR-15 platform. Finally it seems that those of us who never accepted the .223 as anything more than a varmint caliber have viable option for other uses. We all agree we love the lightweight portability of our AR-15s we just never liked its original cartridge.
 
I see that what the .300BO does promise is exciting. What's missing are the actual products and real world numbers, in performance and retail.

So far, what we have is largely internet vaporware, SHOT show announcements, and a lot of talk about what might happen.

No, not really. I have sitting next to me a 300BLK barrel and about 300rds of Gunn Ammo 300BLK supersonic rounds. This weekend or next the barrel will be turned into a complete upper and I'll be in business.

Right now, you can buy factory 300BLK complete uppers from Noveske, CMMG, and AAC, and complete rifles from the first two. Companies that have announced complete rifles, some already in journalist hands, include DPMS, Bushmaster, and LMT.

300BLK ammo is readily available at most major online sellers, with loads from Remington, CMMG, Gunn Ammo, and Hornady (300 Whisper loads stated to be compatible with 300 Blackout). You can also use almost any 300 Whisper load, although not many companies have been or are loading to that specification.

No need to wait for magazines, bolts, or any other special parts for 300BLK in an AR.

From where I stand, as someone who's been looking at 6.8 SPC for several years and 300 Blackout for the last twelve months, is that there is little to no practical difference in current availability of barrels, uppers, and ammo, little difference in price and what there is favors 300BLK, and only a modest difference in availability of complete rifles (for those who can't push two pins together). This is not vaporware. Sure, it's not yet available at Walmart, but in the major hunting state I live in I have never, ever seen 6.8 SPC in a gun store - never 6.8 SPC ammo, never complete rifles or uppers. To me 6.8 SPC is also a purely special-order and online-order item, and 300BLK is already there, with promise of being a normal retail item in the very near future.
 
Z-Michigan said:
I have never, ever seen 6.8 SPC in a gun store - never 6.8 SPC ammo, never complete rifles or uppers. To me 6.8 SPC is also a purely special-order and online-order item, and 300BLK is already there, with promise of being a normal retail item in the very near future.
I can say the same about 300BLK. 4 out of five gun stores very near me carry 6.8 ammo and complete 6.8 ARs. That really isn't a good indicator of popularity especially depending on regions of the country. Academy Sports + Outdoors all over the Southeast have 6.8 ammo and no 300BLK that I'm aware of. It isn't listed as a caliber on their ammo list.
 
Well, that's interesting, but the local gun stores, which I won't claim are all that great, do regularly carry things like the LMT MWS 308 (a $2700+ rifle) and the Bushmaster M17S, a veritable unicorn. Perhaps there are regional differences - we don't do all that much hog hunting here, and deer are either shotgun/muzzleloader south of a line or mostly high power bolt actions north of that line. I stand by what the availability is for the two cartridges in this area.
 
Looks like underpowered 7.62x39. I can get an upper that shoots that for way less $. Ammo is cheaper to. I purchased an ak copy for cheaper too. I can see no reason for this round. Am I missing something?
 
Z-Michigan said:
Well, that's interesting, but the local gun stores, which I won't claim are all that great, do regularly carry things like the LMT MWS 308 (a $2700+ rifle) and the Bushmaster M17S, a veritable unicorn. Perhaps there are regional differences - we don't do all that much hog hunting here, and deer are either shotgun/muzzleloader south of a line or mostly high power bolt actions north of that line. I stand by what the availability is for the two cartridges in this area.

Surprisingly, two higher profile shops I've visited in my area have a lot of LEO customers buying 6.8...as well as the additional hog and deer hunters.
 
Will your AK shoot sub sonic, 208 grain factory loaded ammo? There isn't any such ammo for an AK you say?

Guess you are missing something.

The 300 Whisper aka the 300/221, 300 Fireball, 300 Blackout are made primarily for use with heavy sub sonic rounds designed for a very low audio signature firing from a rifle platform. The round has excellent ballistics out to 300+ yards and still is one of the best rounds for CQC. It was never meant to be a replacement or even to compete with the 7.62X39.
 
This isn't a 7.62x39, it's likely better. If you compare a nominal x39 round, the 123gr FMJ at 2400fps (claimed, many are slower) with a .290 BC, to a 300BLK loaded with a 125gr ballistic tip (.366 BC) at 2320fps (based on reloading data, individual reports, and claims about the upcoming UMC ammo), the 300BLK has more energy from 100 yards onward, and more velocity from 140 yards on, due to the higher BC. Trajectory will be almost the same at practical ranges and slightly better at longer ranges (300+ yards) of limited practicality.

All this and it fits into a standard AR magazine and uses a standard AR bolt, so you have numerous quality options and nothing will fail prematurely. Does anyone make a top quality AR bolt to fit a x39 casehead? Are there any functional AR mags for x39 other than the C-Products, which is not exactly a gold standard?
 
I don't really have a use for subsonic rifle ammo. I didn't say there isn't any such ammo for the ak either. I just can't justify paying through the nose for something that is not useful to me. Cheaper than dirt has boxes listed at $18.90 for 20 rounds. I did find that engel ballistic research makes a 220 grain subsonic in 7.62x39.

The only place I would be doing CQC is if an intruder broke into my house. The unbelievable amount of rifle cartridges available today is crazy. I'm glad we have the options. This round seems to me to be something that will only catch on with widespread military use. That being said it seems as if every week some new cartridge comes out to great fanfare touting qualities that something else does not have. Just like the 6.5 grendal and .50 beowulf. Try finding 6.5x50 arisaka on your local gunstore shelf. Without the japanese military it died. I don't know how good this round was. Widespread military acceptance is crucial to availability. I think that is the reason .308, 5.56, 7.62x39, .45 acp, 9mm, and others are so readily available on the shelf. 7.62x54r is still available because it is still in use by a military force. Just saying.
 
Looks like underpowered 7.62x39. I can get an upper that shoots that for way less $. Ammo is cheaper to. I purchased an ak copy for cheaper too. I can see no reason for this round. Am I missing something?

Yes, 7.62x39 does not work in ARs. The primers are too hard for the AR firing pin. The taper is too great and has too much bolt thrust. The case head is too large and the bolts break. The rounds don't work in normal magazines - or any magazines really. 7.62x39mm in an AR is about as silly as 300 BLK would be in an AK (but we made one just for fun).
 
300 BLK is primarily a supersonic / normal round like 7.62x39mm but for ARs. The case is short just so that it can work in normal AR magazines. It was not compromised to be compatible with subsonic ammo. If subsonic ammo never existed, the case could not be any longer and still work in normal AR magazines.
 
I see that what the .300BO does promise is exciting. What's missing are the actual products and real world numbers, in performance and retail.

Somewhat true, but in a few months when that is solved - this argument against it will be off the table.
 
Tirod,

I see your point but 6.8 has been around for how many years now? 7-8? .300BLK has only been out maybe 2 years?

It was intended to be released at Shot Show 2011. So that would be 9 months now. Because it was seen by the press at a military show in October, we decided to just announce it early - so if you go by that, then it has been 12 months.
 
I think that is the reason .308, 5.56, 7.62x39, .45 acp, 9mm, and others are so readily available on the shelf. 7.62x54r is still available because it is still in use by a military force. Just saying.

Of course, but 40 S&W is popular with very little military use. So there are exceptions for cartridges which just make sense. People like AR15s, and they like 30 caliber.
 
.40 S&W was accepted by law enforcment, not military but government. Ask some people and they will say government and military are the same thing. I think that you have to have a large contract( government or military) to get an ammunition accepted. Sorry for not clarifying. It also took a long time for .40 S&W to filter down to small town LEO's. 10mm was first. Still not a big seller.
 
Of course, but 40 S&W is popular with very little military use. So there are exceptions for cartridges which just make sense. People like AR15s, and they like 30 caliber.

LEOs also like 6.8 similar to your 40 S&W argument.
 
Considering how long the round has been around and the number of rifles chambered for it I think it's place it already well defined. I see it have more advantages for Law Enforcement than I do military. A rifle that throws a 220 grain bullet with near to zero muzzle flash would be very welcome when kicking in the door of a meth lab. Very useful in other urban settings as well. In the civilian world it is a round that is great for smaller/indoor ranges. I know my Dad will be using a suppressed AR in 300 Whisper as his PCC rifle in my upcoming Zombie Shoot this weekend. (The Rangermaster, me, gave special permission for this match)

It is a specialty cartridge? Not as much as one might think. If I was to limit myself to one AR (god forbid) I would likely go with this round as it has a lot of versatility the .223/5.56 lacks. Right now to be economical reloading is preferable in order to get more bang for the buck but who knows what we will see in the future. It handles everything from light plinking to heavy subsonic quite well...or at least mine does with the adjustable gas system I have on it. I have been shooting the round for about 30 years now, won several competitions with it and to me it is one of the best alternative AR calibers out there.
 
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