captain awesome
Member
I posted a brief synopsis of my idea for this on the "Taurus Judge opinions" thread in the revolver section. No one commented on it so I wanted to do a devoted thread to it and see peoples thoughts. It seems to be a common concern about the Taurus Judge lacking penetration because of its short barrel which causes a lack of velocity for the small shot generally found in a 410 shotgun round. Is this a solution to that issue? possibly although it creates other issues to contend with as you will no doubt conclude as I have.
First, both Magnum Research and Taurus make revolvers capable of chambering and firing the 3" magnum shot-shells. Taurus has a whole slew of variations on their Judge line, Magnum Research has 2 of noteworthiness, their 410/45 colt revolver and their 460 s&w offering. The two that intrigue me the most are the Raging Judge from Taurus capable of running 454 casull through it, And the Magnum Research 460 S&W BFR. The 460 does not advertize being able to chamber 410, but considering its dimensions (it has the 3" cylinder) there is no reason why it shouldn't.
The 460 s&w has a max saami pressure of 65,000 psi, the 454 Casull is 60,000 or 65,000 psi (i have read both numbers on the interwebs I am unsure which is correct) which is far beyond any pressure seen in any shotgun cartridge that I know of. So my idea is loading 410 up to those super magnum pressures, and creating the 410 super-mag shotgun cartridge. I know its not as simple as all that, so here are the forseen issues that I believe are possible;
I highly doubt even a plastic high strength magnum shot-shell could take those kind of pressures, so a new high strength brass shell would need to be produced. The other possible issue I foresee is case extraction. being that these revolvers (as far as I know) still have a throat in each chamber that is smaller than the rest of the chamber, the expanding case could fire form against the step and be difficult to extract. This is just speculation though, as I don't know for sure that this would cause difficult extraction. And the other issue would be what exactly would the dimension of this new brass casing be? would it be better to just make a cylinder that is specifically for 410 with no throat, or make the case with a step already there, and if so it would be different for 460 S&W chambers and 454 Casull chambers.
The next issue would be the wad. similar to the issue with the case, I have my doubts if the wads can take that kind of pressure and velocity. melting and plastic fouling in the barrel and chambers could be an issue here. So it would possibly need a new type of wad to be designed, or a new material, maybe both. I may be off base with this one, but it's something that I believe needs to be considered.
Other thoughts;
Another issue commonly brought up with the judge is the fact that because of the required by law rifling in the barrel, it spreads the shot out very quickly and hence its effective range is very short. Magnum Research makes a removable choke for there 410 version BFR, perhaps something like that could be done here as well to fix that problem. It would get battered quite a bit more due to the higher velocity, so it would definitely need beefed up. Of course all of this would be much better accomplished with a smooth bore but hey we have to work with the laws we have.
The other thing about this is these guns are rather large and heavy. personally I wouldn't carry either one anywhere unless it was in a shoulder rig. Of course i probably wouldn't be carrying around the regular judge either because of the same issue but that's beside the point. That being said I don't know how useful this idea for a cartridge would be( I guess it could still have its place as a car/truck gun or HD gun), but its intriguing non the less. And most of my guns I don't use for any practical purpose other than range fun anyway.
I own the 410 BFR and think it is a fine firearm, very well made. Being only advertized and rated for 410 and 45 colt, I dont want to push any pressures beyond what the 45 colt would produce (though I have my suspicions that it can take a lot more than given credit for seeing that it is on the same frame as the 500s&w and 460 S&W offerings.)
So that's my modern day Elmer Keith style magnum revolver Idea. Any comments or suggestions? Or heck even if someone thought enough of it to go into development with me on this....love to hear some feedback either way.
First, both Magnum Research and Taurus make revolvers capable of chambering and firing the 3" magnum shot-shells. Taurus has a whole slew of variations on their Judge line, Magnum Research has 2 of noteworthiness, their 410/45 colt revolver and their 460 s&w offering. The two that intrigue me the most are the Raging Judge from Taurus capable of running 454 casull through it, And the Magnum Research 460 S&W BFR. The 460 does not advertize being able to chamber 410, but considering its dimensions (it has the 3" cylinder) there is no reason why it shouldn't.
The 460 s&w has a max saami pressure of 65,000 psi, the 454 Casull is 60,000 or 65,000 psi (i have read both numbers on the interwebs I am unsure which is correct) which is far beyond any pressure seen in any shotgun cartridge that I know of. So my idea is loading 410 up to those super magnum pressures, and creating the 410 super-mag shotgun cartridge. I know its not as simple as all that, so here are the forseen issues that I believe are possible;
I highly doubt even a plastic high strength magnum shot-shell could take those kind of pressures, so a new high strength brass shell would need to be produced. The other possible issue I foresee is case extraction. being that these revolvers (as far as I know) still have a throat in each chamber that is smaller than the rest of the chamber, the expanding case could fire form against the step and be difficult to extract. This is just speculation though, as I don't know for sure that this would cause difficult extraction. And the other issue would be what exactly would the dimension of this new brass casing be? would it be better to just make a cylinder that is specifically for 410 with no throat, or make the case with a step already there, and if so it would be different for 460 S&W chambers and 454 Casull chambers.
The next issue would be the wad. similar to the issue with the case, I have my doubts if the wads can take that kind of pressure and velocity. melting and plastic fouling in the barrel and chambers could be an issue here. So it would possibly need a new type of wad to be designed, or a new material, maybe both. I may be off base with this one, but it's something that I believe needs to be considered.
Other thoughts;
Another issue commonly brought up with the judge is the fact that because of the required by law rifling in the barrel, it spreads the shot out very quickly and hence its effective range is very short. Magnum Research makes a removable choke for there 410 version BFR, perhaps something like that could be done here as well to fix that problem. It would get battered quite a bit more due to the higher velocity, so it would definitely need beefed up. Of course all of this would be much better accomplished with a smooth bore but hey we have to work with the laws we have.
The other thing about this is these guns are rather large and heavy. personally I wouldn't carry either one anywhere unless it was in a shoulder rig. Of course i probably wouldn't be carrying around the regular judge either because of the same issue but that's beside the point. That being said I don't know how useful this idea for a cartridge would be( I guess it could still have its place as a car/truck gun or HD gun), but its intriguing non the less. And most of my guns I don't use for any practical purpose other than range fun anyway.
I own the 410 BFR and think it is a fine firearm, very well made. Being only advertized and rated for 410 and 45 colt, I dont want to push any pressures beyond what the 45 colt would produce (though I have my suspicions that it can take a lot more than given credit for seeing that it is on the same frame as the 500s&w and 460 S&W offerings.)
So that's my modern day Elmer Keith style magnum revolver Idea. Any comments or suggestions? Or heck even if someone thought enough of it to go into development with me on this....love to hear some feedback either way.
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