New Euro gun laws with plenty of US bashing...
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jahwarrior
Member
we're violent?
i grew up in the bronx, in one of the rougher neighborhoods. i though that that was as rough as it could get, until i visited the U.K. a few years back. man, london is a scary-ass town. those guys don't need guns, they stab and beat each other to death. i personally saw about 7 beatings happen on the street, at various times of the day, during the 3 weeks i was there. i've lived in scranton, PA, for 10 years, and i've seen exactly 7 fights, one of which i was involved in.
we're violent?
i grew up in the bronx, in one of the rougher neighborhoods. i though that that was as rough as it could get, until i visited the U.K. a few years back. man, london is a scary-ass town. those guys don't need guns, they stab and beat each other to death. i personally saw about 7 beatings happen on the street, at various times of the day, during the 3 weeks i was there. i've lived in scranton, PA, for 10 years, and i've seen exactly 7 fights, one of which i was involved in.
we're violent?
The Viking
Member
I need to get out of here. I'll be sad to leave my family and friends, but since they are all habitual socialist voters, because of some silly notion of "being working class",I can't help but thinking that they deserve a wakeup call, no matter how much I love them. The stuff that's happened in France last week will come up here as well. Heck, it already has, sort of. Kids in Malmö are chucking stones at firefighters and paramedics...
There's always the perception that countries that have very restrictive gun laws are somehow safer, that's pretty far from the truth and it doesn't reflect reality.
Violent crime tops 1 million mark and that was in 2005
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4700575.stm
Crime in the US vs. the UK
http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2007/01/crime-in-uk-versus-crime-in-us.html
Misbegotten government plans in regards to gun control in the British Commonwealth
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/IBDGunConFailure.html
Violent crime stats in the UK regarding knife usage in violent crime.
http://www.insight-security.com/facts-knife-crime-stats.htm#Statistics%20-%20the%20numbers
Now they're trying to ban knives in an attempt to fight "knife crime"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5010954.stm
The only thing that the British government is make it safer for criminals to operate.
Home invasions in the UK vs. the US
http://futurewire.blogspot.com/2004/12/home-invasions-us-vs-uk.html
Violent crime tops 1 million mark and that was in 2005
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4700575.stm
Crime in the US vs. the UK
http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2007/01/crime-in-uk-versus-crime-in-us.html
Misbegotten government plans in regards to gun control in the British Commonwealth
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/IBDGunConFailure.html
Violent crime stats in the UK regarding knife usage in violent crime.
http://www.insight-security.com/facts-knife-crime-stats.htm#Statistics%20-%20the%20numbers
Now they're trying to ban knives in an attempt to fight "knife crime"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5010954.stm
The only thing that the British government is make it safer for criminals to operate.
Home invasions in the UK vs. the US
http://futurewire.blogspot.com/2004/12/home-invasions-us-vs-uk.html
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Why dont they just ban crime? 
Fosbery
Member
Gun crime was very low before the ban.
Handgun violence has more than doubled since the ban.
Gun control does not work.
Now this is pretty much rubbish. British self-defence law is not different than most US states - the only major difference is laws against the tools needed to perform it. You can be charged if you shoot an intrude, like Tony Martin who shot two burglars. He was charged because he shot them when they were running away - not self defence. In contrast another British man shot a burglar as he was climbing through a window and he was never charged. Another man shot two burglars as they drove across his land - he was not charged. In another case a man pushed a burglar out of a window as he was breaking in, causing him to fall to his death. He was not charged. In all three cases they were not charged because they had reasonable reason to fear for life or limb. In the first case he was charged because he did not have reason to fear for life or limb. I don't believe most US states are any different.
macFarlaine wrote:
Hey, give us a break... we had to travel further.
kurtmax wrote:
False. Depending on the definition of a "World War," it could be argued that both WWI and WWII were "World Wars prior to US involvment. After all, in WWII, Germany was on its path of conquest in Europe and Japan, allied with Germany, was following similar plans in Asia. Prior to US involvement in either World War, several nations had aligned themselves along sides and were actively involved in the conflicts.
Even if your definition is one that requires US involvement for it to be a "World War," the US didn't START either of them. We may have "transformed" them into a World conflict by our very prescence, but still we didn't START them. The difference is subtle, but very, very important.
Beagle-zebub wrote:
Yes and No. Making comments about individual Europeans is Low Road. After all, we have fine examples of Europeans who do not agree with the content of this thread here.
However, I do not consider it Low Road for a US citizen to have a response to the comments made in the OP about our home. I have a strict personal policy that I refrain from taking stabs at the laws of other countries. As I see it, they make their choices and live with them. I do, however, suspend this policy if those countries' representatives make a point to take stabs or contrast themselves to the US in the process of passing their little laws. It is our right to respond to such tripe. I frankly consider it an obligation to respond. Several of my ancestors bled to break free from Europe and to exert our Rights of Man over that of State or Throne.
I hope everyone keeps their outrage over this statement. Many here would say the exact same thing.
And I have to editoralize. If we learned anything from history, by sacrificing those civil liberties, it often makes it easier for the government to kill you.
God bless Europe. And protect it. I suspect that Divine Intervention is about the only thing that can now.
-- John
Hey, give us a break... we had to travel further.
kurtmax wrote:
False. Depending on the definition of a "World War," it could be argued that both WWI and WWII were "World Wars prior to US involvment. After all, in WWII, Germany was on its path of conquest in Europe and Japan, allied with Germany, was following similar plans in Asia. Prior to US involvement in either World War, several nations had aligned themselves along sides and were actively involved in the conflicts.
Even if your definition is one that requires US involvement for it to be a "World War," the US didn't START either of them. We may have "transformed" them into a World conflict by our very prescence, but still we didn't START them. The difference is subtle, but very, very important.
Beagle-zebub wrote:
Yes and No. Making comments about individual Europeans is Low Road. After all, we have fine examples of Europeans who do not agree with the content of this thread here.
However, I do not consider it Low Road for a US citizen to have a response to the comments made in the OP about our home. I have a strict personal policy that I refrain from taking stabs at the laws of other countries. As I see it, they make their choices and live with them. I do, however, suspend this policy if those countries' representatives make a point to take stabs or contrast themselves to the US in the process of passing their little laws. It is our right to respond to such tripe. I frankly consider it an obligation to respond. Several of my ancestors bled to break free from Europe and to exert our Rights of Man over that of State or Throne.
I hope everyone keeps their outrage over this statement. Many here would say the exact same thing.
And I have to editoralize. If we learned anything from history, by sacrificing those civil liberties, it often makes it easier for the government to kill you.
God bless Europe. And protect it. I suspect that Divine Intervention is about the only thing that can now.
-- John
Last edited:
230RN
...but they're SUPPOSED to be "military-style."
From RLsnow's cited site regarding Norway's relatively liberal gun laws:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway
Radical self protection? Radical?
What the h3ll is that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway
Radical self protection? Radical?
What the h3ll is that?
230RN
...but they're SUPPOSED to be "military-style."
^^^
The implication seems to be that if someone comes at you with a knife, you can only respond with a knife. Anything more is "radical."
Like the use of firearms would be "radical." I just resent the underlying presumption that this evil clanky noisy greasy thingy on my belt is "radical."
It tells me something about the attitude of the writer thereof.
Anyhow, back to thread mainline.
The implication seems to be that if someone comes at you with a knife, you can only respond with a knife. Anything more is "radical."
Like the use of firearms would be "radical." I just resent the underlying presumption that this evil clanky noisy greasy thingy on my belt is "radical."
It tells me something about the attitude of the writer thereof.
Anyhow, back to thread mainline.
sacp81170a
Member
The thing she ignores in her hubris is that you can't prevent good people from being killed by bad people without hurting the bad people. Firearms are the most efficient means invented to hurt or kill those bad people.
Oh, wait, silly me. The bad people in government don't want you hurting or killing them...
cracked butt
Member
Move to Northern Minnesota or Northern Wisconsin- you probably wouldn't even be recognized as a foreigner there.
Yeah,,,,we here in America are soooooo violent.
The facts bear out that most gun crime in this country is the result of involvement in the drug trade and by family members killing each other over domestic incidents.
The fact that mass killings are so rare in this nation that the actual number of victims does very little to the overall numbers of actual homicide victims who, again, are generally invoved in some criminal enterprise themselves does not prove that we, as a society, are sooooo violent.
The fact that the last real mass killing perpetrated in this country involved the use of aircraft as the weapon of choice and the fact that the criminals who perpetrated this act were not even citizens of this nation again proves that we, as a society, are NOT sooooo violent.
The fact that explosives are so rarely used in any form of violence in this country that those figures rarely show up in any criminal statistics report also proves that we as a society are NOT sooooo violent.
Think on this one Germany and England.
Americans do not attend sporting events for the sole purpose of inflicting grave injury upon other members of society yet we, as a society, are accused of being sooooo violent over here.
As a general rule members of American gangs do not roam freely attacking citizens at will for the sole purpose of injuring them unless the police do something stupid that is recorded on video tape and sold to the new media for profit, yet we are the ones as a society, who are accused of being sooooo violent.
Get a clue Europe.
The facts bear out that most gun crime in this country is the result of involvement in the drug trade and by family members killing each other over domestic incidents.
The fact that mass killings are so rare in this nation that the actual number of victims does very little to the overall numbers of actual homicide victims who, again, are generally invoved in some criminal enterprise themselves does not prove that we, as a society, are sooooo violent.
The fact that the last real mass killing perpetrated in this country involved the use of aircraft as the weapon of choice and the fact that the criminals who perpetrated this act were not even citizens of this nation again proves that we, as a society, are NOT sooooo violent.
The fact that explosives are so rarely used in any form of violence in this country that those figures rarely show up in any criminal statistics report also proves that we as a society are NOT sooooo violent.
Think on this one Germany and England.
Americans do not attend sporting events for the sole purpose of inflicting grave injury upon other members of society yet we, as a society, are accused of being sooooo violent over here.
As a general rule members of American gangs do not roam freely attacking citizens at will for the sole purpose of injuring them unless the police do something stupid that is recorded on video tape and sold to the new media for profit, yet we are the ones as a society, who are accused of being sooooo violent.
Get a clue Europe.
macFarlaine
Member
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Wow sooooo intense.Don't believe all you read,football violence this year 0.Marauding gangs where ? Inner city problems where ? I wonder where you get all this rubbish from,I don't see it.
feedthehogs
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- 1,801
Seems I remember the same talk after 9/11 out of Washington.
That way if mad cow disease ever strikes, they can trace the cow back to its herd after it shoots up a school.
230RN
...but they're SUPPOSED to be "military-style."
To The Viking:
Most of the folks on this board had reasonably recent forebears who gave up friends, family, hometowns, and sometimes even fortunes to come to this country.
They had the sheer guts to do it, and I sometimes think that this "gutsy" gene pattern has been passed down to our present populace. (Although perhaps the "Guts" gene pattern is basically recessive.)
Sometimes I think a theory like that might explain a lot of the differences between us and the rest of the world.
When you get here, Welcome!
Most of the folks on this board had reasonably recent forebears who gave up friends, family, hometowns, and sometimes even fortunes to come to this country.
They had the sheer guts to do it, and I sometimes think that this "gutsy" gene pattern has been passed down to our present populace. (Although perhaps the "Guts" gene pattern is basically recessive.)
Sometimes I think a theory like that might explain a lot of the differences between us and the rest of the world.
When you get here, Welcome!
Patrick_Henry
Member
A most interesting development. Unfortunately not all that surprising I suppose. Let's just hope the socialists in our government don't get any bright ideas. I can't say I know a whole lot about crime stats for specific countries (although knife crime in the UK does seem to keep coming up), but I was thinking that it was an European nation (namely France) that had a large portion of a city taken over by violent rioters to a degree that even the police didn't want to patrol it. As compared to the worst riots I can think of in recent US history (LA) in which several gun owners protected there property by using their right to defend themselves. And the PRK has very tough gun laws itself. There is a reason though why the LA riots didn't happen in Atlanta...
Fletchette
Member
"All European cows are registered Europe-wide, so why not guns...?"
Unbelievable. A few years ago I would have laughed if someone said, "When cows are outlawed only outlaws will have cows" but damn, those Europeans are so Socialist they will do it. The militant vegitarians will do it.
Unbelievable. A few years ago I would have laughed if someone said, "When cows are outlawed only outlaws will have cows" but damn, those Europeans are so Socialist they will do it. The militant vegitarians will do it.
This is the kind of stuff that people have to resort to when guns are outlawed.
The Home Gunsmith Site In The UK
http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/introduction.shtml
Frankenstein AK variant put together with nuts, bolts and scrap steel in Poland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAyph-wUP0A
Homemade Ammo in Poland out of brass tubing, blanks and homemade bullets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eIXGbRTVLs
It's either that or deal with a black market dealer who's smuggled former military weapons into the country.
Man I'm glad that I live in the US, but this kind of thing will creep it's way over here eventually too.
The Home Gunsmith Site In The UK
http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/introduction.shtml
Frankenstein AK variant put together with nuts, bolts and scrap steel in Poland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAyph-wUP0A
Homemade Ammo in Poland out of brass tubing, blanks and homemade bullets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eIXGbRTVLs
It's either that or deal with a black market dealer who's smuggled former military weapons into the country.
Man I'm glad that I live in the US, but this kind of thing will creep it's way over here eventually too.
Shadow Shock
Member
"Nothing long term to worry about. When your governments start murdering you by the millions again, our "gun culture" will probably bail you out."
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