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New Fast and Furious stuff

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Sky, Apr 18, 2012.

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  1. Sky

    Sky Member

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  2. Fremmer

    Fremmer Member

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    Actually, the article exposes the media spin before the border control agent was murdered, and then the subsequent attempt by the obama administration to silence the truth about fast and furious.

    Why is obama withholding documents from congress? What is obama trying to hide?
     
  3. mrvco

    mrvco Member

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    As scandalous as the whole thing is, I just don't see how you get FnF to resonate with the public-at-large. Without the "main stream media" spinning this thing with a bunch of witty tag-lines and sound-bites, most folks who aren't already disgusted by it never get beyond "gun stores selling high powered assault rifles" and figure none of this would have happened if the gun stores didn't exist to begin with as their eyes glaze-over.
     
  4. Sky

    Sky Member

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    I tend to agree ^
     
  5. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    Mostly swept under the rug and forgotten already . Nobody, particularly nobody of importance, held accountable for ATF crimes.

    If anyone is truely surprised by that, they haven't paid much attention to what the media, or many government officials, are up to.
     
  6. Apple a Day

    Apple a Day Member

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    Here's an angle:
    A Tale of Two Scandals In one a handful of Secret Service agents compromise the president's personal security by taking hookers to their hotel room; in a matter of days the entire thing is dragged out into light, much to do is made, and people are held accountable. Meanwhile, the Department of Justice sells thousands of firearms to Mexican drug cartels, compromising the entire nation's security and NO ONE is held accountable.
    Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it?
     
  7. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Organizations take their behavioral/ethics "guidance" from their top leadership.

    Yet, whether it's Secret Service, GSA, or DOJ involved, our Chief Executive is insulated from every scandal by the traditional media.

    But he's going to be really angry....
     
  8. mortablunt

    mortablunt Member

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    Could somebody find an article that gives the same points about F&F being kept hidden that does not degenerate into a rant?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fast_and_Furious

    This explains it all in much better detail with proper objectivity.

    Here are some facts to gather from it:

    * The ATF gunwalking began under Bush in 2006.
    * Gunwalking is nothing new, however, this was the first time that guns were allowed to go loose without interdiction.
    * The standard gunwalking procedure is to let a suspect purchase arms, trail them to their clients, and then arrest everybody.
    * Under Bush, gunwalking resulted in 0 indictments.
    * Operation Fast and Furious began in October 2010
    * The operation was planned in 2009.
    * ATF agents were forced to allow smugglers and star purchasers go through without interdiction.
    * 2020 guns were let loose thanks to Fast and Furious
    * Only 700 of those guns have been accounted for.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  9. mrvco

    mrvco Member

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    The secret service / hooker thing is a distraction. You can't tell me that a secret service advance team is going to risk an international incident over 250 freaking dollars. Maybe one drunk agent, sure, but not several of them after the (legal) hooker has gotten a police officer involved and there are at least 3 agents involved in trying to sort it out.

    I've thrown more money at less significant problems to avoid any repercussions and it defies all logic that a handful of secret service agents with far more to lose wouldn't see fit to do the same. This is the sort of incredibly poor judgement that you would expect from the TSA, not the Secret Service.
     
  10. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    This whole mess needs to be investigated and prosecuted. These agencies have way too much power and are not in check. Project Gunrunner and Operation Fast and Furious were started by the DOJ & ATF in 2005-06. When an agency does not answer for its mistakes it grows more powerful. History is repeating itself, the old FBI days of Hoover is the way I explain all of the agencies now. Our country does not have the checks and balances that it once did. A government that does not respect, obey and fear its citizens is out of control.
     
  11. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    Look at how the media cranks up the volume on some stories like hooker story or anything our troops do while at war or what a pro 2a rocker says but barely mention bounties offered on citizens or speaches by religious leaders affiliated with the present admin and it is not difficult to see that they are well in the bag of the left.
     
  12. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    Oh I agree the media goes either far left or far right. This country need a balance the is in the middle without impinging on the rights that both sides believe. Whether we like it or not both sides will occupy this country, we have to find a neutral ground that the majority can stand on. Both major parties cover up stories and sweep stuff under that we the people should know. I refuse to blame either side, but I blame both for doing the same things. It kills me that we have so many underlying issues that we as a people cannot come together and start digging ourselves out of the messes that we are in. The have been burying us for many years and many administrations. There is no right or wong, its all medium ground now, first we have to set our checks and balances again, and limit the power of one without the support of the masses. There I go, sorry but I have strong issues over where our future is headed. But hand the young an ipad and it is all forgotten....
     
  13. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

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    The tactic in play is sensory overload. Why else would comments by Ted Nugent, pictures from 2010 Afghanistan, and the so called Secret Service hooker scandal be front and center?
     
  14. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    Which news channel or paper would that be? I haven't run across it yet.
     
  15. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    I do appoligize, I didn't mean to break out a soap box, but we as a people need to come together, not as Democrats, Republicans, Independants or The Tea Party, but as Americans. We need our congressmen and women,our senators, house representitives and our administration to hear us as a people. Corruption is deep in our government, but in all aspects. The media launches " stories and campaigns" that can make or break anyone running for office, but what would we be witout free speech. Its all give or take, I just wish there were more that would band together and say" things need to change" to the media and to all branches and departments of our government..
     
  16. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    I tend to think that alot of CNN is far left, and alot of Fox is far right. Both are influenced, but that is because the media is the single most powerful organization in the free world. Thats what I ment about hearing the stories that are reported, we get two out of three sides. There always are three sides to EVERY story. In the media dealing with government scandals it is the left, right and the truth. I stick by proving about CNN's storys now and Fox during the Gulf War. It really is biased.
     
  17. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Furious-Bloodiest-Shameless-Cover-Up/dp/1596983213
    Katie Pavlich, Fast and Furious: Barack Obama's Bloodiest Scandal and the Shameless Cover-Up, Regnery, 2012, 224 pp. ISBN-13: 978-1596983212

    No. 34 in the Amazon Top 100 books in sales.

    30 reviews: 23 Five star, 1 Two star, 6 One star, all politically polarized.

    While it is nice to see a book on OF&F, I am forced to gree with a comment on one of the reviews:
    On the other hand, very few people have tried to keep up with OF&F, so a good summary is handy for them.

    Pavlich does accept the theory that Dennis Burke was sent to Phoenix in Oct 2009 to start Operation Fast & Furious (or restart the failed Operation Wide Receiver 2006-2007 as Fast & Furious) in order to back up the Obama-Calderon "90% Myth" that US guns were 90% of the cartel gun violence problem and re-instating the 1994-2004 Federal Assualt Weapon Ban was the solution to te Mexican Drug War.

    It would be funny if it weren't sad. According to Mexican security consultant Georgina Sanchez unregistered firearms in Mexico include about 12 to 15 million military style firearms and 40 million civilian style rifles, shotguns and handguns. Hundreds or even thousands of guns leaking across the Mexican borders from the U.S. would be a drop in the bucket, and hardly the motivation for the drug cartels to do what they do. The motivation for drug cartel crime is U.S. drug dollars leaking across a border that is kept in the state of a leaky sieve for unfathomable political reasons.
     
  18. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

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    CJohnson: An individuals view of what constitutes "far right or far left" is a reflection of where he resides. "Far right" in your perspective is probably "moderate to left leaning" in my perspective. As always, you have a right to state your opinion as do I, but neither of us can be a true arbiter of the truth because truth is also dependent on the perspective.

    As I stated above, the primary job of the propagandists in the press is to divert our attention to all of the "hope and change" happening to this republic.
     
  19. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    I agree Steel Horse, it is a perspective. As with any I respect anyones view as long as the believe in it. I am actually just really sad at the state of our country. It is like a magic act. Look over here while they take your watch off of your hand on the other side... You are right tho.
     
  20. mrvco

    mrvco Member

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    Fox does not deviate from the script. They are simply main-stream media to keep the right on the same page.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  21. mortablunt

    mortablunt Member

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    Fox News Channel.

    I call it Fox Propaganda.

    The United States is considered far right by almost every single other civilized country. Our Liberal Democrats are their moderate centrists. Our centrists would be their Right Conservatives. Our Conservaive Republicans are their nationalist fringe movements.
     
  22. rodensouth

    rodensouth Member

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    mrvco, hate to break it to you, but they don't write the right winger narrative. They are way to moderate for me. I wish there was a far right channel for us!
     
  23. mrvco

    mrvco Member

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    That's exactly what I mean by staying on the script... The script written by the establishment that has a very specific definition of "right" or "conservative" that they want to make sure you adhere to and don't deviate from or question.
     
  24. Fremmer

    Fremmer Member

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    Is there an estimate of how many innocent poeple have been murdered by all of the guns the obama administration knowingly and intentionally provided to the mexican drug cartels?

    And, given that the obama administration argued to the us supreme court that a law abiding citizen doesn't have an individual right to keep and bear arms, does obama believe that mexican drug cartels have such a constitutional right?
     
  25. Robert

    Robert Moderator Staff Member

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    To much politics and the media is evil to leave this open. OP if you want to try and start a new thread and hope the discussion stays on FaF feel free. But keep it limited to the case and not speculation as to which news channel is more evil.
     
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