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New Flag Flies Over Georgia Today

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Soap, May 8, 2003.

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  1. Soap

    Soap Member

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    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...4&e=5&u=/ap/20030508/ap_on_re_us/georgia_flag


    New State Flag Rises Over Georgia

    By BARNINI CHAKRABORTY, Associated Press Writer

    ATLANTA - A new state flag without the Confederate emblem was raised over the Capitol on Thursday after a redesign aimed at laying to rest a dispute that inflamed race relations and roiled Georgia politics.

    As the old flag came down, drivers slowed their cars to watch and there were scattered cheers and boos from a crowd on the Capitol lawn.

    "This is a historic day in Georgia and I didn't want my daughter to miss out on it," said Lateshia Jackson, a black woman who brought her 6-year-old Nikki to the flag raising. "The process worked and these redneck holdouts can carry all the signs and boo all they want to. It's a good day for me, my daughter and some lost sanity in Georgia."

    The new flag went up immediately after Gov. Sonny Perdue signed a bill to replace an unpopular design adopted in 2001.

    The 2001 flag was a blue banner that contained a small Confederate emblem along the lower edge. It succeeded Georgia's 1956 flag, which was dominated by a large Confederate emblem that was added by the Legislature at the height of Southern resistance to integration.

    The brand-new flag that was hoisted Thursday contains the Georgia coat of arms and the words "In God We Trust" on a blue field in the top left corner, with three red-and-white stripes to the right.

    Georgia voters will pick between the new flag and the 2001 flag in a referendum next March. Few give the old flag any chance to win.

    Many groups had lobbied for Perdue to veto the bill, but the governor said it would be in the state's best interest to move on.

    The 2001 flag was pushed through by Democratic Gov. Roy Barnes after a similar controversy in South Carolina led to an economic boycott directed by the NAACP. But the 2001 flag was never popular, and its busy blue banner with a huge state seal was voted the nation's ugliest by a group of flag experts.

    Perdue, Georgia's first Republican governor in more than a century, ousted Barnes in November after promising to let people vote to bring back the 1956 flag.

    In the end, that didn't happen. After months of arguing — and a threat of an economic boycott by black groups — lawmakers drew up a new flag instead.

    Perdue said he would have liked to give Georgians more options on which flag to choose.

    "I can understand the disillusionment of those who have worked for a referendum on the post-1956 flag," he said. "I have consistently said that the citizens of Georgia deserve the opportunity to vote on their state flag. Despite its limitations, this bill meets that requirement."

    Perdue said he would have voted for the pre-1956 Georgia flag, which is similar to the new flag. He said he does not fear political retaliation from Southern heritage supporters during the next election.

    "Good, well-meaning people could and do have opposite views on the flag," he said. "That doesn't make one group morally superior to another."

    By late summer, 25,000 of the new flags are expected to be on display at schools, fire stations and other government buildings across the state.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2003
  2. Soap

    Soap Member

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    I thought it was charming that Ms. Jackson states every person who protested against the new flag must be a "redneck". :rolleyes:
     
  3. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    Good.

    The Confederate flag wasn't put in there in 1956 for it's "historical connection". It was put in as a political statement against racial equality, pure and simple. As that intent in '56 was pure evil, the visible symbol of that evil intent should have been "yanked" (pardon the pun) a long time ago.
     
  4. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Jim, the important thing is that it is gone and that it was pulled down by the people of Georgia who corrected their own evil. It gives hope to those of us that people can change and listen to reason.
     
  5. Soap

    Soap Member

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    Boy I wish I could spell "Flies" in the title! :) I think it is a good thing that it isn't there anymore, for the reasons that Jim stated. But it just irks me when it is okay to label someone as a "redneck" in 2003 whereas in 1956 it was okay to label someone as a "coon". I find it ironic for some reason.
     
  6. Sergeant Bob

    Sergeant Bob Member

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    How long before that gets challenged?
     
  7. AZTOY

    AZTOY Member

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  8. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    Heh. Check out the similarity to this (official) confederate flag. ;)
     
  9. CZ-75

    CZ-75 member

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    Derek,

    Some opposed to the new flag (actually the upcoming referendum) have used the first Confederate Flag resemblence issue as a red herring to torpedo the whole issue (i.e., referendum), at least from some news accounts I've read.
     
  10. cool45auto

    cool45auto Member

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    Well, no matter what some people say I don't think there was anything wrong with either of the former flags or the present one. There's plenty of other stuff to worry about in the world instead of what flag us "rednecks" are waving. ;)
     
  11. WilderBill

    WilderBill Member

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    Well, I wasn't really bothered by the old flag.
    If someone is bothered by the connection between the current south and the old south, why not move north?

    The new one looks nice, not way different from the Texas flag.
    I'm pretty sure the simularity to the original Confederate flag is no accident.


    This may be WAY too obvious and logical, but what about the pre 1956 flag???? Did it offend anyone? :scrutiny:
     
  12. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Member

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    I see both sides of this issue. But leaving aside any debate about the 1956 origin of the flag, the Late Unpleasantness, or race relations ...

    The battle flag was the emblem of a military unit, and flying it over a civilian statehouse flies in the face of the American ethic of civilian authority over the military. It was just as inappropriate as would be flying the USMC flag(*) over the U.S. Capitol -- it doesn't matter whether the intention is neutral, good or evil; military flags don't belong on civilian government buildings.

    (*) That's not a slur against the Marines, who have my utmost respect (and often awe).
     
  13. Tom B

    Tom B Member

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    This is an issue for the people of Georgia to decide. I feel we could care less about what the people of Kali ,Canada etc...think regarding the issue. These locations have no history nor involvement in the war between the states. All they know is what Hollywood has spewed about it over the years. Secondly the flag at issue here is not the "Confederate Battle Flag" nor is it the "Stars and Bars". That is more Hollywood tripe! The proposed new flag is closer to the "Stars and Bars" flag than the 1956 flag was. The flag in question is the Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. The biggest flap here regarding the whole issue is that one plank of Sonny Perdues platform as candidate for Governor was that the people of Georgia would decide by vote between the new flag and the 1956 flag. He lied! This in turn has wasted a lot of time on a very small flag issue and has the state in an uproar. Thirdly to the poster that made reference to the people of Georgia, past or present, being evil or involved in some evil that was a petty comment and has no merit.
     
  14. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Tom, racism is evil. The flag (indeed the Civil War) change was done because of racism.

    I do agree that it was up to the people of Georgia. I am heartened that they removed that evil symbol.
     
  15. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    See? This is where the thread's gonna go off-topic. I've got a half-dozen ancestors who died fighting underneath that flag, and none of them were slave owners. Hell, none were any better than subsistence farmers -- have been that way since the 1760's until my dad got a 1580 on his SAT's and found a way to pay to go to Harvard.

    They had something to fight for though, and that something wasn't slavery. Nor were they "evil." There's more to the story than you've been told, friend. I don't know that it's worth going into here, but gross simplifications lead to gross misunderstandings.
     
  16. sm

    sm member

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    Derek, I can relate. Born and raised in AR, many of my ancestors were sharecroppers. Yep, fought and died under under a flag with similar apperance. It is part of my personal history.

    I did find it interesting when I took Sociology, under a black Phd, whom I have a lot of respect for, he didn't have a problem with it.

    His words ( paraphrased)
    " Its history, good, bad, agree, disagree, it happened. I lost some family fighting under a Confederate flag, the Confederate flag means something to me , and in case you haven't noticed, I'm black".

    He told a student wearing a Malcolm X hat , "well if you can do that than others may wear their choice of symbol--just don't get your panties in a wad and start any crap in my class or campus", and we'll get along just fine".
     
  17. Tom B

    Tom B Member

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    El Tejon

    The "civil war" was no more about racism than the Iraq war was about "freeing" those people or "WMD". You are the victim of too many movies and too much government schooling!
     
  18. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    A few comments from South Georgia...

    First, the people of Georgia did not change the flag. It was changed unilaterally by two consecutive Governors, who were afraid to let the people decide, because they thought we would pick the flag with the Confederate crossbars.

    Second, wouldn't it be nice if people from other states kept their noses out of our business??

    Finally, please remember that one man's symbol of hate is another man's symbol of history.

    I dont really care too much what flag we fly over Georgia, but I sure as heck don't think the opinions of Californians and other Yankees matter one bit.
     
  19. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Tom, private school here, thank you. The reason listed in their declarations of succession was Northern interference (i.e. attempting to free) with the sacred Southern right to own their fellow human beings.

    Recently back from Tejas, a Southern state, where I attended another private school. In the state museum for this Southern state, they print on a very large placard the reason that Texas left the Union--it was slavery.

    Granted the state historical museum is a governmental institution.:scrutiny: No doubt Georgia changed their state flag in '56 because of an advisory opinion of the Office of Interior Decoration of the Attorney General.

    However, as re1973 sez, history is history. Important thing is that this particular segment of evil is over.
     
  20. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    Derek Zeanah:

    I'm not going to debate the motives of the Civil War. That's crazy.

    But in 1956, when the state switched to a blatantly Confederate flag, they did so as intimidation and insult to an entire race.

    That was flat-out wrong.
     
  21. F4GIB

    F4GIB Member

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    Obviously, the War of Northern Aggression continues.
     
  22. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Derek, isn't it funny how no one in the South owned slaves prior to the War of Southern Treason? It does not matter if they did; it matters that they fought to continue it and maintain White Supremacy. (The motto of the Southern Democratic Partry after the War of Southern Treason).

    If the War of Southern Treason was not fought for slavery, why the debate during the collapse of the CSA to arm blacks? Why did Robert E. Lee do what he did and say what he did at Saint Paul's. Why would the succession declarations even mention slavery?

    The modern economy has brought us lots of revisionist history from the New South recently. But it is a false, free-good history.

    The flag change of 1956 was a direct racist statement against Yankee action that made them stop abusing blacks. The change in the flag of Georgia is a retraction of that racist statement.
     
  23. Tom B

    Tom B Member

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    Ah more pontification from "the dirt clod state" and of course the S.F. Bay area whose culture should be used as a role model by all. Where it is ok to be a black racist but never to be a white racist. I found it very strange when I joined the military that people from the north had a stronger racist attitude than people from the south. At first I thought that attitude may be put on as some sort of a show while being around southerners because it was felt that we had the same feelings but as time went on I saw that it was no act. Strangely enough I met no one from the bay area when I was in the military so I don't know how they felt. The victors of war get to write the history books so a lot of feel good is written about why the north went to war against the south. Children of Christ freeing the oppressed. I wonder what the Vietnamese write in their history books now? In the south we were taught that most of the slave traders were actually from the north! That the slaves were actually brought here to work in northern factories and due to climatic and other factors they were later sold to the south. So let he who is without sin cast the first stone! El Tejon you may stand upon your soapbox and spout about "evil" and "treason" if you wish but if there was no "south" there would probably be no United States of America at all today. Oh by the way Rodney King doesn't live in the south other than maybe south LA!
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2003
  24. JPM70535

    JPM70535 Member

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    Ah yes, the eternal urge to place the cause of the "War of Northern Agression" on the issue of slavery. In all the pre Politically correct accounts I have read on the reason for Southern secession from the union, the major issue was always States Rights, the right of a State to determine its own destiny without interference from "Big Brother". Seems like I hear a lot of acceptance of this idea when it is applied to CCW issues.

    My folks were like so many others, dirt farmers who had no connection with slavery, yet fought and died for the right to determine their own future. They fought for the Army of Northern Virginia under that flag and I find it unaceptable that others demonize it. It was and is a symbol of pride to those who served under it.
     
  25. Glock Glockler

    Glock Glockler Member

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    prior to the War of Southern Treason

    How different was that from the war of Colonial Treason, in 1776?
     
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