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New HBO TV show: Generation Kill

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by LJ-MosinFreak-Buck, Aug 9, 2008.

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  1. LJ-MosinFreak-Buck

    LJ-MosinFreak-Buck Member

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    Anybody watch this? How real-to-life is this? It's on Sunday nights, 9pm central I believe.

    Also, this is gun related, I have a question.

    If you have seen the show, what kind of stock is on "Trommley's" (a character in the show, a major character) M249 SAW? It's really short and stubby looking.
     
  2. highorder

    highorder Member

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    I am watching episode 4 right now.

    I like it; If I understand correctly, it's based on true events, and two of the characters are Marines playing themselves.
     
  3. 21H40

    21H40 Member

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    Stock

    It's one of the newer (the first time I saw them fielded was in 2005, but that's one soldiers observations, not actual Army history) collapsible stocks for the lightweight versions of the M249.

    They also have a shortened barrel.
     
  4. pistolero6869

    pistolero6869 Member

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    It not bad but kinda dumb at times, But I watch it anyways.....
     
  5. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Saw some of it so far... Looks to be into "let's blow stuff up and shoot stuff, and make soldiers in general look not too bright, and their leadership actually dumber."
     
  6. Darthbauer

    Darthbauer Member

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    I like it. Seems like most of the people that I know that are and were in the marines. I think there are more than a couple of guys in it playing themselves.
     
  7. Freelance Tax Collector

    Freelance Tax Collector Member

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    I've seen only the first episode, and I felt like it was somewhat accurate. The only differences I really see have to do with behavior of the lower level enlisted. Nobody I know gets all enthusiastic about being a "blood crazed killing machine" or whatever. That stuff is all pretty much a joke to us. Nobody goes on runs with a flak, gas mask, and weapon. Some people really jump on the "Army is full of turds" bandwagon, but I as well as many others do not. Basically, we're not as moto as that.

    I felt like a lot of the way they show senior enlisted/officers was pretty spot on. Things like some jerkbag Sgt Major flipping his lid about a mustache being slightly out of regs strike me as exactly the way those guys are. Contrary to any preconceived notion, in my experience the military is really about by the book, linear thinking. They do their best to stifle creative or "outside the box" type thinking within the context of grunt units. To give you an example, we had a "basic infantry knowledge" test a couple weeks ago (our new 1st sgt and gunny come from the drill field.) and one of the questions was "how much dispersion should there be between individuals in a patrolling fireteam"? I answer "terrain dictates the distance" which is really the only logical answer, for if we're in a desert then it would be wise to spread way out, but a triple canopy jungle doesn't allow for that amount of distance. Of course, the answer was wrong, because in some official military manual, the "correct" answer is 15-25 meters or something like that. But I was given a warning for "putting smartass answers" on the test.

    There was a quote from somebody within Napoleon's army, and I wish I could remember who said it or how it went, but it said something to the effect of "There are two types of armies; armies who have neat uniforms, drill precisely, and put on parades, with senile and decrepit generals and weak minded staff tending to their every need, then there's the real army, the one people don't like to see, who are dirty, foul mouthed, and actually fight the battles.

    I'd say my unit feels like the former.
     
  8. halfacop

    halfacop Member

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    Right, its a miniseries based on the true story of Marines fighting in the Iraq war that will look at the early movements of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion and depict the complex challenges faced by the U.S.-led mission even in the war's early stages.
     
  9. LJ-MosinFreak-Buck

    LJ-MosinFreak-Buck Member

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    So, for the most part, good show? And thanks for the info. Knew the shortened it somewhat, but didn't know about that stock. Kinda cool if I may say so my self. That series is my new favorite show.
     
  10. D-Day

    D-Day Member

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    I love it. Can't wait for the next episode.
     
  11. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    I hate the name of the series.
    Some Lib picked it I guess.
    I wonder if the message isn't " these crazed killers are coming home soon"

    I'm just sort of sensitive about that. After all I used to be a crazed baby killer.

    AFS
     
  12. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    Or, it could be the name of the book the author (a former marine attached to that unit) chose...
     
  13. yeti

    yeti Member

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    Seems to contain an unusual amount of interest in the pleasures of tactical bowel movements.:what:
    While I understand bodily functions are part of real life, and like weapons that can never be shot dry, shows where people never need to relieve themselves are a movie/TV thing, this program seems to have a constant crap fest running in the background. I get the scat humor, and the real life need for the function, it just seems a little more then is really necessary to get the idea across.

    That and the fact that like every(almost every) war show since M*A*S*H the enlisted men are wise, compassionate, and tactical/strategic -cal masters , and the officers are bumbling, glory hounds that need to be molded by their teenage subordinates. It's not over the top, like MASH was, and I understand it was written from the POV of a reporter living with the EM, but the bias is still there.

    But I do like the show.
     
  14. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    I was going to post, but your post, sir, sums up my thoughts exactly. I like it too, but with the same caveats.
     
  15. yokel

    yokel Member

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    ‘Generation Kill’ is much better than its silly title.
     
  16. cpttango30

    cpttango30 Member

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    I dunno know about anyone else. But the only time a mission got screwed up was when an officer tried to lead the mission. If an NCO was doing it it went so smooth it was nto funny.
     
  17. LJ-MosinFreak-Buck

    LJ-MosinFreak-Buck Member

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    I'm glad they put it on the air. I can't wait to watch it tonight.
     
  18. bobbarker

    bobbarker Member

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    Freelance- I have to say, I think you got stuck with a ****ty unit. The two Units I've been with, and the 4 different commands I've had(While I have hated some of them) ALWAYS stressed answers just like what you said. There is a right(Real world) answer, and there is a Correct(book) answer, and they have always wanted the Real World answer. They wouldn't jump down your throat for giving the book answer, but they always wanted the real answer before they would move on. Because Terrain does dictate dispersion, formation, etc. So, I think you just got shafted on that one.

    To comment on the enlisted Vs. Officer leadership, I have to say, Officers screw things up, a lot more than I've seen enlisted do it. And the reason being, to get the same amount of athority as a Lt. who has just graduated from college and ocs, you need to be at least a Staff Sgt. Technically, the LT still outranks you, but the Staff Sgt. holds more sway. That means you've got to put in about a decade worth of experience before you can really argue with an officer(about 6 months experience) on how to do things. 6 months is just enough time for them to get enough experience to think they know what they are doing, all the time. Not all officers are like that, but I've run into more that are than aren't. So, take it for what it's worth.

    Finally, I haven't seen the show, but it sounds like you're describing the Parasaw. It is lighter, has a collapsible buttstock, and a shorter barrel. One of the big problems with the old SAW was how front heavy it was, and this reduces that problem a lot. It also has a rail system so you can put your goodies on there.
     
  19. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    Interestingly, I believe its a British production and directed by a British woman. :confused:

    Maybe that's why they are so concerned with bodily functions. :D

    What's the deal with Charms candy being bad luck. Is it just the name?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  20. LJ-MosinFreak-Buck

    LJ-MosinFreak-Buck Member

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    Heh, Idk. I love the show though.
     
  21. Daniel_Junglist

    Daniel_Junglist Member

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    my comment is also to freelance, I was army infantry and if we answered anything but what you said on that little quiz wed have been doing pushups.


    charms suck.
     
  22. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Or...it could be the name of the book that the author, Evan Wright -- a contributing editor of /Rolling Stone/ -- came up with.

    I don't believe he had any prior military experience. At one point he is handed a rifle to hold during an encounter, and has it gently but firmly taken away again due to his inexperienced handling of it (handing it back muzzle first with the safety off (p. 150, I think). Not a move a man with any military training would have pulled.

    I have this book and have read it three or four times. It is excellent, for what it is. This is not an expose of the entire U.S. military, or of the USMC. It is simply the record of what Wright saw while attached to a unit from the First Recon Battalion during the invasion of Iraq. I've found the book poignant and humorous as well as ironically sensitive to the guys Wright was with. Most of them were very young (compared to most of us ;-) ) and the majority were not very highly educated or knowledgeable about many issues -- as many uneducated young guys tend to be (been there, done that!). So, surprise, surprise, sometimes the guys are portrayed as fallible, immature, or even dumb. But I'm guessing that's a pretty accurate portrayal and would be consistent with a similar interview with a front-line unit in any military just about any where, throughout history.

    I haven't seen the mini-series but I can't wait to when it's out on disk.

    And, truth be told, "These crazed killers are going to be coming home soon," would make a pretty decent title to a work like this -- if it was written from the correct point of view. I've read this book and a number of others with a growing appreciation for what a fighting man (or woman) *IS*-- outside of both the sterilized view of the Minuteman and the glorified view of Arnie and Stallone. We really do (have to) create killing machines to do this work effectively and "cleanly." We use many psychological techniques to turn off the moral and social guards internal to most people that prevent them from acting in the ways they will have to act to survive war and to achieve our ends. But will we ever be able to figure out how to shepherd these guys back OUT of that mode? Society and the military turn a very harsh eye on those soldiers who take things too far on or near the battlefield, or to those who escape into drug abuse when they are out of the field again, or those with various manifestations of PTSD (or whatever we're calling that plethora of symptoms now). And yet what kind of a person can walk back up over the brink and enter *humanity* again without some serious rifts and wounds?

    For one very simple example, that really haunts me because of its very mundane nature, watch some of the Youtube videos of convoys just driving through Baghdad. I don't mean the ones of firefights and insurgents squashed by tanks. Just the simple, every-day, videos of the HMMWVs getting from point A to point B. Horns blaring, bumping-to-pass, crashing over medians to drive into oncoming traffic if threatened with stopping for only a second, weapons eternally at the ready to destroy whatever might slow them down and trap them in an ambush.

    Now picture the driver of that HMMWV as little as even four weeks later. He's finished his enlistment, been rotated out of theater, and honorably discharged. He's wearing a button-down shirt and slacks on his way to a new job, sitting in his Honda, in bumper-to-bumper traffic on some freeway outside of Los Angeles or somewhere. You think he's feeling just a little stressed?

    I'm not worried -- for a minute, really -- about what these "crazed killers" might do when unleashed on society. I'm pretty concerned about what we should be doing to help them.

    Wow, that got off topic. Just read the book.

    -Sam
     
  23. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    True - got it confused with another "marine in the desert" book that made it into a movie.
     
  24. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Do not eat the unlucky charms.

    When you gotta take a dump, you gotta take a dump.

    MREs or other field expedient chow doesn't help.

    Being in, at best, a mildly hostile area (ranging from "within range of buddies with video cameras and evil intentions toward practical jokes" to "Achmed might have boobytrapped that ditch" is not conducive to whippin' out the good ol' stack of catalogs...

    Speaking of which - does MRE toilet paper still suck?
     
  25. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't know -- do you use it according to the TM? ;)
     
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