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New Jersey legal AK-47. Is this possible?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by BATTLESUIT, Mar 16, 2008.

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  1. BATTLESUIT

    BATTLESUIT Member

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    :banghead:In New Jersey, long arms can not have pistol grips. I've looked at the AK-47, and it seems that the pistol grip and stock are two different pieces. The trigger also looks too far from the back end to install a non-pistol style stock. Does anyone have any insight as to whether this type of modification is possible, and if so, would you know a smith that could and would do it?:banghead:
     
  2. Rio Laxas

    Rio Laxas Member

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    What about one of these? It is a saiga 7.62x39 and it doesn't have a pistol grip on it. They are relatively inexpensive. The trigger is further back on it then a regular AK, but with a little work and understanding of federal parts compliance laws it can be converted to pistol grip should you ever leave NJ.
     

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  3. Anteater1717

    Anteater1717 Member

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    What about a thumb hole style stock.
     
  4. Rio Laxas

    Rio Laxas Member

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    Yeah, a thumb hole stock would be better if you can get away with it.
     
  5. BATTLESUIT

    BATTLESUIT Member

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    Saiga. I've seen these but I don't know a whole lot about them. Is this a version of an AK-47? Does it fire the same ammunition as the 47 and does it have the 47s stubborn reliability?

    I'm also not familiar with a thumb hole stock. I'm going to look into it. Do you have any more information?

    The information so far is helpful and appreciated. Thanks to everyone! Keep it coming!
     
  6. LKB3rd

    LKB3rd Member

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    Google "saiga with skeleton stock" . Saiga's are "sporterized" AK's and are as reliable and rugged as most any other ak. They are made in Russia, at the factory where I believe Mikhail Kalashnikov still works as a consultant or something like that.
    I have one in .308, and I only have 200 rounds through it so far, but I am enjoying it a lot. They also make them in .223 and 7.62 x 39.
    The trigger group is farther back than a standard ak, and they can be had in a straight stock or "skeleton stock" version. The skeleton stock is a little bit short for my taste, and I plan to convert mine to the standard ak configuration. It does however give you the function of a pistol grip, while not technically being a pistol grip.
    The receivers are just modified ak receivers, and many people convert them to the standard ak configuration, as the holes are there in the receiver, just covered up with a riveted plate.
    http://forum.saiga-12.com/
     
  7. everallm

    everallm Member

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    Battlesuit,

    You CAN have a pistol grip on a rifle in NJ, it's the number of "evil" features that are relevant.

    However in general your AK falls into the "substantially identical" element as an evil assault weapon. This means a no-no. The Saiga should be OK as would an SKS with a FIXED magazine.

    Easiest way to know for sure is to get to over your local gunstore and ask nicely what they can sell you...:cool:
     
  8. BammaYankee

    BammaYankee Member

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    I was born and raised in NJ, and my advice to your situation is to MOVE! :evil:
     
  9. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    Saiga is ak, made in russia, made in the origional factory, but with sporter furniture. should be perfectly legal in NJ.
     
  10. Shrinkmd

    Shrinkmd Member

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    Sarco sells the WASR-10 in single and double stack versions. I looked at them, and they really look like junk. I'd rather have an SKS in the garden state. I know Sarco is not a law firm, but I don't think they would sell something which could close down their business.
     
  11. Antipasta

    Antipasta Member

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    I've never seen a Saiga at the range here in NJ (not the definitive answer to your question). Are they magazine feed? If so, are they over 15 rounds?
     
  12. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    Yes, you can buy US made magazines for the Saiga all the way up to 47 round magazines.
     
  13. tbtrout

    tbtrout Member

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    If it is politically incorrect and legal in NJ Brick Armory sells it. They sell WASR's and Saiga's. Give them a call.
     
  14. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    In New Jersey, long arms can not have pistol grips.

    The "bad" things for a semi-auto long gun in NJ are:

    1. pistol grips
    2. ability to accept mags over 15rds
    3. flash surpressor
    4. folding stock
    5. bayonet stud

    You can have any two but three make it an assault weapon.

    There are many pistol grip long guns sold in NJ, WASRs, Hi Points, AR type rifles, etc

    If you have a pump shotgun you can have pistol grips, folding stocks, bayonet studs, or whatever you want.

    There are restrictions on semi-auto shotguns. Go to NJSP.org click firearms info and follow the links for your answers.
     
  15. BATTLESUIT

    BATTLESUIT Member

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    Brick armory. Does anyone have a number for them? I asked a vet that I work with today, and he told me that an AK-47 is legal in The Garden State. I'm going to do a little more digging, but I think all the information here pretty much covers it. Thanks everybody.
     
  16. Bulldog500

    Bulldog500 Member

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  17. Ash

    Ash Member

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    The Mag restriction gets it. If a firearm has a detachable magazine, it is capable of accepting a magazine with capacity greater than 15 rounds. Though nobody makes one for my Mossberg 810, it has a detachable mag and so is capable of taking a trench mag if somebody wants to make one. So, you can have a pistol grip but nothing else. A bayonet stud (lug) is of no consequence. A folding stock might be nice for storage, but it isn't a big deal, either. The flash-suppressor might be nice, but use a muzzlebreak and life is okay.

    BUT, a pistol-gripped Siaga could quickly fit into the quacking like a duck category. Might have to live with the hunter stock (and then, with wicked abandon, mount a flash-suppressor (or, just to be even more evil, mount a bayonet lug - useless but a flipping of the finger).

    Ash
     
  18. BGreen

    BGreen Member

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    Most of the information regarding firearms laws in NJ posted here is incorrect. Please contact a NJ firearms lawyer such as Nappen and you will surprised to hear what he has to say.
     
  19. BATTLESUIT

    BATTLESUIT Member

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    I don't want to have to contact a freaking lawyer to find out the damn gun laws in Jersey. I went on several law enforcement pages as well, none had a comprehensive list of dos and don'ts. I guess I should just fly to Mexico and get my Mexican citizenship. Then, I can come back up here and do whatever the hell I want.:cuss:
     
  20. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/NoHiCapChemSpray.pdf

    "New Jersey prohibits the manufacture, transport, shipment, sale or disposal of large capacity ammunition magazines, unless the magazine is intended to be used for authorized military or law enforcement purposes. N.J. Rev. Stat § 2C:399h. New Jersey law defines “large capacity ammunition magazine” as a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly into a semiautomatic firearm.
    Section 2C:391y"
     
  21. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    http://tinyurl.com/3hg5gn


    (UPDATED THROUGH P.L. 2008, ch. 16)
    TITLE 2C THE NEW JERSEY CODE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE
    2C:39-3. Prohibited weapons and devices

    Any person who knowingly has in his possession a large capacity ammunition magazine is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree unless the person has registered an assault firearm pursuant to section 11 of P.L.1990, c.32 (C.2C:58-12) and the magazine is maintained and used in connection with participation in competitive shooting matches sanctioned by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship of the United States Department of the Army.
     
  22. jdc1244

    jdc1244 Member

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    We feel your pain, but you yourself note the problem:

    If you can’t find the information online – and don’t take the advice of this or any other online forum – you’ll need to contact if not a lawyer then some NJ legal professional knowledgeable about your state’s gun laws if you want to be safe and sure.
     
  23. mio

    mio Member

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    griz22

    bayonet stud? are they worried about mass mall bayonetings?
     
  24. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm

    New Jersey law lists firearms that are prohibited "assault firearms." N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(1). In addition, the law provides that the term "assault firearm" includes, "Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed" in the law. N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(2). Thus, a firearm is an assault firearm if it is included on the list of banned firearms or if it is manufactured under a different designation than a firearm on the list but is "substantially identical" to a specific listed firearm.

    We believe "substantially identical" is clear by its plain meaning. The Criminal Code provides that the statutes in the Code must be read "according to the fair import of their terms." N.J.S.A. 2C:1-2c. The Criminal Code explains that where language may be susceptible to different readings it must be construed to "give fair warning of the nature of the conduct proscribed." N.J.S.A. 2C:1-2a.(4), c. Simply put, the phrase "substantially identical" must be given its plain meaning, one that gives fair warning.

    The term "substantial" means pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing. The term "identical" means exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to another only if it is identical in all material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially identical to a listed assault firearm unless it is identical except for differences which do not alter the essential nature of the firearm.

    The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm: name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; a modification of a pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list.

    A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

    A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

    1. a folding or telescoping stock;
    2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
    3. a bayonet mount;
    4. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
    5. a grenade launcher;

    B. a semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

    1. an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
    2. a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
    3. a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
    4. manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and
    5. a semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm; and,

    C. a semi-automatic shotgun that has at least 2 of the following:

    1. a folding or telescoping stock;
    2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
    3. a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
    4. an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
     
  25. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    Seems to me the neutered WASR passes muster in NJ so long as it is not equipped with a magazine capable of more than 15 rounds, and it has only a pistol grip.

    No folding stock, bayonet lug, threaded muzzle, or grenade launcher.

    The magazine issue seems to be primarily a magazine issue, and not so much an issue impacting the analysis of whether the rifle can be defined as a New Jersey "assault weapon."
     
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