Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New Mexico: "Targeting gun laws "

Discussion in 'Legal' started by cuchulainn, Nov 4, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,297
    Location:
    Looking for a cow that Queen Meadhbh stole
    from the Albuquerque Tribune

    http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/opinions03/110403_opinions_lisle.shtml
     
  2. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,600
    Location:
    Oddly enough, a downwardly-plunging firey handbask
    15yds? That is 45ft, or roughly the distance of my back door to the road infront of my house. These people are nuts.

    What states are they reciprocating?
     
  3. tyme

    tyme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,550
    Location:
    Novalis
    According to packing.org, none.
     
  4. mec

    mec Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    4,459
    The distances are the same as the Texas qualifier while the round count at each distance is different. Texas requires 70% on a full sized silhouette with a 12" 5 ring; a huge 4" and the outside line scoring 3"

    I had three guys shoot the course with the sightless Seecamp .32s and all scored just over 90%.

    It is highly unusual for a texas applicant to fail the shooting test but I suspect it would happen with some regularity if we were shooting at a 12x18" target instead of the txpt.
     
  5. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    19,606
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    The shooting requirments sound a lot like an LE qualification course. We qualify at 15 yards with backup and off duty weapons. Not an impossibility with a snubbie.

    I live where concealed carry for anyone but peace officers (to include political types because of the way peace officer is defined in the statute) is a pipe dream. I don't know anything about what you went through to pass the law, but it seems like it was poorly written if it gave the DPS Superintendent the power to set the rules.

    Not to criticize, perhjaps it had to be that way to get passed.

    Jeff
     
  6. mec

    mec Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    4,459
    The texas course I just described is a police qualification course with the New Mexico target being more difficult. The NM folks worked long and hard to get this passed and then had to fight lawsuits brought by the former mayor of abq who is a pathological antigun nut.

    Some of us predicted that NM would never get such a law becaused of the deeply entrenched democratic machine bolstered by quite a large percentage of welfare voters and the california leftists living in Santa Fe. They fooled us. Getting it through the legislature was hard enough but it was only the beginning of the fight.

    The requirements for insurance were proposed by Texas antigunners and thrown out. Texas DPS does not attempt to regulate fire codes, handicap accomidations (though they are part of the instructor training) or local ordinances.
     
  7. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Sounds a lot like the traditional leftist firearms for me, but not for thee approach.
     
  8. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,684
    This will be a test of Gov Bill Richardson.

    I have a feeling he will come through for ya if ya let him know how you feel about this.

    Rick
    Optimist
     
  9. Aikibiker

    Aikibiker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    513
    Location:
    Daytona, Fl
    I could probably pass that course of fire with my carry gun(as long as I had plenty of time to line up my shots). However, for them to foist requirements like that on NM citizens who just want to protect themselves and their loved ones is plain wrong. I hope you get that Secretary removed from office and sensible rules enacted. That listing your carry guns is particularly unsettling to me.

    Is there any remedy through the courts?

    You said the bill's sponsor is aware of the problem, can she do anything about it?
     
  10. Gray Peterson

    Gray Peterson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,548
    Location:
    Lynnwood, Washington
    You mean he, and he just as much said that if the DPS did what he feared they would do, he would file a bill to remove the DPS authority to collect such information.
     
  11. mec

    mec Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    4,459
    The shooting standard may not be as hard as your DPS bureaucrats intended. This is a picture of the Texas target. The round area in the center and there are usually more than enough hits it to pass the 70% standard as long as the shooter understands how his gun works and isn't afraid of it.

    Instructors have to score 90% with both Revolver and Autopistol. They arn't notably better shots than most licensees and most score 98-100%

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Waitone

    Waitone Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,406
    Location:
    The Land of Broccoli and Fingernails
    Norman Manetta, please call you office.
     
  13. HankB

    HankB Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    5,226
    Location:
    Central Texas
    A 12" x 18" piece of paper is a BIG target, so unless they're giving you only a second or two to draw and fire, the shooting requirements are, to put it bluntly, "a piece of cake."

    The other requirements - de facto gun registration, birth certificate required, but a passport is unacceptable (what about naturalized citizens?) . . . these are pure bovine excrement.
     
  14. Partisan Ranger

    Partisan Ranger Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    672
    Location:
    Virginia
    ...so they're saying that a CCW holder should be able to hit an assailent at 45 feet? :scrutiny: In my world, if a guy is 45 feet from me, he's not assailing me.

    Why would NM want people to be trained to kill at 45 feet?
     
  15. mec

    mec Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    4,459
    It's not too bad. I confronted some burglars on my property one time and it was nice to know that I could have done them up from 50 feet on in. They will probably, for safety reasons, have the shooter start from a "low ready" position rather than a holster. Two seconds for a single shot at 3 yards is the fasted time require in TX and this is a very leasurely pace when the gun is out and your eyes are already focused on the sights. The times grow longer as the range increases and most shooters-even inexperienced ones usually get off their shots in about half the time required.

    They wrote the law here around a certified birth certificate but by the time it was finalized, a drivers license was all that was required.
     
  16. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,192
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    If a guy's pointing a gun at you at 45' you better be prepared to shoot back - AND HIT - because he is assaulting you - whether he's pulled the trigger yet or not! (of course avoiding that situation IMO is pretty easy except under the most unusual of circumstances - but then all it takes is once)

    I regularly practice at 15 and 25 yards. If I can hit COM at that range then the close up stuff is - as one guy put it - "a piece of cake" (about once a month I test that theory at 3 and 7 just to be sure - so far I've been right).

    As an aside in OK you've got to show proficiency by shooting 50 rds at 3 and 7 yards (not scored - just shoot - hell you don't even have to hit the targets). When I took my CCW training class I was appalled at how poorly most of those wanting to pack shot. There were folks missing at 3 yards for pities sake. These types are a danger to themselves and the public if they can't hit what they're shooting at at 3 freaking yds. For about a week after that I found myself seriously questioning whether or not mandatory training and demonstrated proficiency (real proficiency not the easy type proficiency that NM and OK require) should not be required. Luckily - after thinking about it for a while my libertarian bent and my belief that the 2A is an absolute guarantee of the RKBA overcame my fear of all the dufus' out there packing who literally can't hit the broad side of a barn.
     
  17. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,684
    I have been told that Mr. Lisle was responding to the first draft of the rules. They are now on the third draft which has been changed.

    Here is some background;
     
  18. mec

    mec Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    4,459
    a lot of history repeating itself here. Many of the restrictions attempted by the dps were also tried in other states. The democrats lost the governorship just before Texas passed CHL. A hold over Attorney General handed down a number of restrictive opinions as did the head of the liquor control board.- The legislature handed them their heads and gave them some busy work to remind them they they do not dictate state law.

    This year, government entities at all levels lost the power to post public buildings against licensees. The texas licenses started out, amazingly, as only a defense to prosecution on the charge of carrying a handgun. It is now a powerful assertion of gun rights.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page