new policy concerning concealed carry

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standingbear

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well,with the passage of Ohios concealed carry law,our company has made some policies.In the new handbook,they state no guns,ammunitions or weapons of any sort are to be brought onto company premises(including the parking lot) and if theres reasonable suspicion to do so,they may search our cars,locker,handbags and backpacks.violation is grounds for immediate dismissal.I disagree with this somewhat.I travel a distance to work and I had planned on getting the lisc to carry.it wouldnt make any sense to leave the gun at home(over an hour away) or rent one at the indoor range after work-why get the lisc if you cant carry?.I can understand them not wanting people bringing guns into work but see nothing wrong with a lisc indivual saftly storing one in their locked trunk in the car until after business hours.I dont want to get fired yet I feel if I just keep quiet about it and get the lisc,they will find out one way or another and start searching my car ect..kinda getting second thoughts on getting the permit(or lisc) now.somehow...feeling kinda letdown at the issue of getting the lisc in the first place which I couldnt wait to get.thoughts?
 
Get a permit. Get a lock box to store the gun at work. Refuse to open the box if your car is searched. Say that the key is at home. Oh, and tell no one that you have a permit.
 
This may start a fire.....

First of all, its not Concealed if ANYONE knows about it, lets be very clear about that. Can you think of ANY reason they would have the suspicion to check your car? Seems to me that if NOBODY knew you had a gun in the car, lawfully or otherwise, your company would not do anyting not needed. I would not mention to anyone at work that you even want a license or intend to get one. This will raise the first suspicion to which they may try to search.

I say, carry it and keep it in the car. By the way, I would be curious to know what commie company you work for in case I want to boycott their products or services. Would you mind posting that?

On the other hand, some people may just say follow the company rules and be an unarmed subject instead of an armed citizen.

Be safe and discreet. I would also see if your company has a place that you can put suggestions. If not, perhaps start getting your fellow workes that do not like the policy to submit letters to the president of the company on an anonymous level....maybe something will change.
 
By the way, get the license because its your right and you can. Even if you carry the gun once a year. My reasoning is this. When the time comes that the states want to take away CHL, it will be a much larger fight if more of the states residents have the license. Its kinda like voting in my eyes. The more people have them, the more votes for having them.
 
Same, same old story. The law abiding employee must remain unarmed and vulnerable ... whilst any jackass with a mind to it .. could get a gun into work and do about anything .. unchallenged.

The company is proving it has no trust for it's employees ... why should you trust them ... it's classic. Probably all they are mindful of is Dollars ... insurance Dollars probably ... and little or no concern for their people. I'd wager that if the CEO had a carry permit and chose to carry ... he sure as hell would ..... but the peons ... they must stay at risk. And the parking lot deal .... well that's just plain stupid .... pretty much negates anyone's chance of day to day carry, if they adhere to policy.

It's rather nauseating.:(
 
Isnt there some part of the new ohio concealed carry law that dictates applicants names are to be made available to any newspaper?this is whats eating at me,if the newspapers can find out,im sure anyone can.Funny...a good portion of the good people I work WITH enjoy shooting after work...many have expessed dissagreement over the car search business at the range...but nobody is talking at work,dont want to lose their jobs.
pretty much negates anyone's chance of day to day carry, if they adhere to policy.
exactly..so I couldnt even go to the range after work with my own unloaded gun locked away in the trunk,lest someone get suspicious and I get fired.Ill get the permit but I guess I'LL have to leave it at home...just seems a waste.
 
Standingbear....would you be so kind as to post the name of the company. I think its time for me to write a letter myself. Don't worry, I will stay very vague about where I got the policy info.
 
Well, all I know is that the first time I get an emergency call on a night or weekend, they're gonna hear about how I have to drive home first, because I'm not permitted to drive my vehicle onto the grounds...
 
Is there a nearby place you can park that is not company owned? Are you imaginative enough to find a hiding place in your car that a gun could be stored in that would not be easy for someone else to find, but still give you fairly quick access?

There are ways around this if you are willing to put in enough effort to do so. The big question though is whether or not it is worth risking your job to "get around" the company policy. Do you think the potential dangers are sufficiently grave to make you feel you need to carry (better 12 than 6 kind of situation)? If you can easily get another job in the same town with a more gun friendly company, why not do that. If not, calculate the risks vs. benifits of carrying and base your decision on that result.

For myself, I work at a company with similar policies, and I have chosen not to carry. I probably would if my neighbors hadn't fixed their dog situation enough to keep them contained in the yard, and if they become a problem again, I will most likely get a can of pepper spray (the really high capsacin content ones), plus a big maglight to keep in the car (for illumination of course, not bludgening ;)).

The company I work for pays better (by far) than anyone else in town, and to even get a vaguely similar job I would have to relocate. With my wife still in college and a baby on the way, quitting is not an option, and getting fired for bringing a gun to work is even less appealing because I would also lose my security clearance.
 
Ask about the company's liability policy should someone come into the workplace shooting folks.

Ask them if they are ready to face a lawsuit because they would not allow you to defend yourself should the first sentence happen. God forbid!



I can understand them not wanting people bringing guns into work

Why is that?
 
For all the fine floks out there looking for a new business venture. How about gun vaults built like ministorage places? I know it sounds completely crazy but with the atitudes of some businesses they could work.
 
I'd get the permit whether I had an immediate full time use for it or not.

I doubt your employer can legally search your car even if it's in a company lot, and if it illegally searches your car, I believe you'd have grounds for a law suit for a very large dollar amount.

I don't know whether this is true, but I've heard it's much easier to replace jobs than lives. I've had to replace jobs, but have never tried to replace my life.
 
Not sure what you do, or how easy it is to get another job, but in my situation I'd carry anyway. Company policy be damned.

As long as you don't drop it on the floor and are careful to buy good gear that doesn't print, who would know?
 
Hmmm. This thread got me to thinking...

I could buy/rent a building in a business or industrial district in which most of the businesses do not all weapons on company property and make a business of temporary storage of people's weapons.

Sorry. Just thinking out loud. Hijack aborted.
 
The company's grounds to search your car would be when the local paper publishes your name as a CCW holder...and IANAL but I believe that as private property owners, they can lay down the rules as they see fit, no matter how assinine. That said, I'd get the license, wait until they had searched my car after the local rag printed my name, and then start carrying, keeping the weapon locked in the car....just my .02.

Mark
 
Run some searches as employees having guns gets discussed now and then, I think there are some relevant news articles that might help you.

I would get the permit, heck with the worry about being listed in a paper. I plan to list the reporter's info as well as the head folks of the paper in an ad if I see my name listed simply because I wish to have a firearms permit. Amazingly this shuts lots of folks up real fast. One thing you can research is being singled out simply because you have a permit. This is if your car gets searched more than others because you made the news.

You can either carry the gun and never let anyone know or you can be vocal or you can just not carry the gun.

If you do carry the gun in the car I would not use it at the gun range since others will know you did not go home to get it. As some others have said, concealed means totally concealed all the time.

I tend to be vocal and have found that it makes the bosses wonder. I ask questions about when the trained and armed gaurds will be in place since I worry about a criminal not obeying the rule and shooting me or others. And since I obey the rules I would expect managment to have a solid protection method in place before I voluntarily disarmed myself. Overall this concept gets the rule chucked in the circular file and I am considered wacko, so it comes out fine all around.

I can type this post because I have the luxury of few responsabilities and low bills. So being a pain and losing a job does not really bother me. If you are similar to the one poster who is paid above average for the area and seriously needs the money, then I would weigh the job a lot more heavily than the fun I get from messing with silly authority figures who like to make rules.

One thing you should research if you plan to conceal 100% is the legality for the business breaking into your car. If you have a real trunk I would switch that lock out for one that has its own key instead of a shared key with the doors and maybe the ignition. I chuck the remote key fob things so that is also something to lose. You can honestly hand them a key ring that allows them to open the doors and start the car and hide the trunk key elsewhere on another key ring or something. The mini vaults are another thing to research.

When I partied my way through a little college years ago there were some serious rules on the dorm rooms being allowed to be searched. But they could not pop the locks on a briefcase and I always seemed to never recall the digits properly. I basically used the briefcase the way many use a mini vault now. And actually since I live in ohio I tend to use the briefcase as a locked thing when in an suv that lacks all those seperate compartments the current law wants.

Your main problem is that you wish to be employed and park on their property. Doing so gives many of your rights away, especially is you have signed things agreeing to follow the rules of the silly book and what not.

I can't answer your question for you, but I would be vocal and use some of the facts that have caused more and more states to allow concealed carry. Research that one since this site rocks on logical and well thought out discussions about how ccw does not equal the wild wild west.
 
quitting or getting fired isnt an option with me either...we are barely getting by as it is-seriously working poor-cant afford to take any chances or move.I wonder how many other places will start doing the same thing with the new law coming into effect soon...will be interesting to see how things will change once the law takes effectin ohio.....but Ill still have my days off and weekends for the permit,so I guess it wont be a total loss.thanks for the thoughts.
 
Get a small concealable weapon in a very good rig, like a P32 in a pocket rig, unless they have metal detectors. A new job is a lot easier to find than a new life....:(
Edited to add - as long as carrying does not violate any federal state or local laws....
 
Can you park off their property easily? If so, that and a secure lock box might be a good solution.

Or, drive to work with someone who feels the same as you, meet in a local parking lot, lock up both your pistols in the lockbox, & then take the other car to work.

Greg
 
They don;t really have a right

to search your car. They can search your desk, locker, and so on, but you have a reasonable right to expect privacy in your car. Of course this goes out the window if they see you put the weapon in your truck. I would carry and lock the pistol in the car, just make sure no one sees your weapon or holster.
 
What utter hogwash.

If somebody at my workplace insisted on searching my car like that, I'd laugh in their face. Self-defense is a human right, regardless of what packs of lawyers want to claim.
 
I've faced similar decisions. Something about the 5th ammendment comes to mind. And I would also give Standing Wolfs post some serious weight in your decision.

Just 2 weeks ago the police chased a bank robber through our parking lot. What if he'd made a hard right into the building and took hostages?

"Won't happen to me" is a stupid, uniformed posistion to take.
It can, it does, and it just might happen to you.

Trust me, stuff happens. I'm barely 30 and I've already been shot, stabbed, and ran over. And I live in "happy valley" in Utah.
 
Standing Bear,
You're in a situation that many people are faced with.

I'd suggest:
1) do a search for workplace shootings on the internet or if you can get to Lexus-Nexus, the newspaper search engine, print out news events of work place shootings. Include the note, "Company policy forbidding lawful possession of firearms on company property would make this possible" and leave it annonymously on the owner's desk

2) concealed means concealed. Keep quite and don't ever let them search you

3) don't ever let them search your car etc. If you have a locked box, the key or combination in not accessible.

It is going to take a court case to make companies realize that they shouldn't violate a person's rights when they go to work.

-Jim
 
WI's carry law adressed this, unfortunately it failed by one vote.

IIRC, there was specific verbage in the bill that made suitable storage in your car in a employer's parking lot legal, and overrode that portion of any employer's code of conduct or handbook policy as a requirment of employment. :D IIRC the employer could also not ban car storage/carry if you used your own privately owned vehicle in the course of your job.

The original version of the bill even had specific language laying out employer liability if they banned CCW and a permited employee was ever injured or attacked in a crime on thier premises. Unfortunately, it was never taken seriously, and was probably intended from the start as a throwaway bargaining chip to get legislatiors on board with the promise of a "reasonable bill".

The upside to WI's CCW defeat is that it only failed by one traitorous vote on a two-thirds veto-override majority, from an assemblyman who had voiciferously supported and co-sponsored the bill. In the end he felt it was more important to not weaken his party with the first gubanatorial overrride in 20-odd years. And a cush state job from the Govenor once he gets voted out next year, if he even bothers to run.

However, due to the closness of the vote, the NRA, WCCA, and the WI Pro-Gun Movment are out for blood, and hopefully several senate and assembly seats will flip over the CCW issue, and others like taxes, and we'll get an even better bill through in 2005, with more of the original CCW protections intact, enough to make the years wait worth it even.

Frankly, my attitude about carry on private property is based on two things:

- You normally can't be forced to sign away your basic human rights as a condition of employment, and self-defense is a basic human right.

- My body, clothing, and what's under it does not cease being private property just because it is momentarily located on someone else's private property. If you're a guest in my home, I cannot simply thrust my hands in your pockets and grab what I want because you are on my property. As long as what you carry does not adversely effect the external environment, it is none of anyone else's business. I think that an employer ought to be able to fire you for brandishing improperly, flashing etc. but not for carry. I feel that dismissal for carry is akin to having a Jewish or Muslim employer fire you because he suspected you came back from lunch with pork in your belly. But if you took that pork and excreeted it on the floor, or carried porkchops in your hands and swung them around and slapped people with them, it's a different story.
 
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