New Production M1 Carbines?

[Omaney]

I'm interested in getting an M1 Carbine for fun. Does anyone have any real world experience with the two main manufacturers Kahr and Inland? I've already read a bunch of old threads praising or bashing each but have seen a lot fewer real experience opinions on them.


Yeah, yeah, I know, buy GI.
If a deal falls in my lap I will but GI is getting crazy expensive.

 

[Cannibul]

Gun Tests magazine just did a comparison in this month's issue.

Both received the same score of A- .

 

[boom boom]

Complicated issue--major issue that divides folks is the use of a cast receiver versus a forged one (GI). Second issue, feeding issues--some carbines have problems and some don't. The Inland and Kahr (AutoOrdinance) reportedly did use the same casting source for their receivers (haven't bothered to check recently) and Inland offers some variants that Kahr does not. Fit and finish does vary a bit from GI if that bothers you. The clone Kahr model that I saw, was not worth the price that the seller wanted to sell it at. I personally do not have one but have shot my FIL's GI Inland and Winchester models from the CMP.

There are also those carbine clones made with a mix of GI parts and commercial (Plainfields, Universals, etc. which you can find sometimes around $500) just to complicate your decisionmaking. There is a whole world of these made roughly between the 1960's and 1980's.

guntests.com recently reviewed a Kahr, Inland, and GI (they do not accept advertising-subscription only) along with a GI, I believe with different 110 gr. loadings and the commercials did have good accuracy for a M1 using historical standards but varied a bit in feeding all the different ammo available. Not sure if the review is available without subscription--some are at the guntest sister website.

Also see.
http://m1carbineforum.forumco.com/

 

[boom boom]

Forgot to mention Fulton Armory and James River Armory which use forged receivers. James River sells under the name of Rockola but it is not associated with the GI Rockola but is a reproduction.

 

[Omaney]

That Gun-Test article was great. Thanks.

 

[Dog Soldier]

I have always owned GI M-1 Carbs. My first one was an NRA/DCM Inland Div. of GMC. As I recall they were $22 bucks delivered by Rail Way Express in 1962.
I did own a Non-Military for a few days. It was not in my opinion a reliable firearm. I have owned a "Quality Hardware" GI Carb. for the past many years. I just enjoy these "War Babies".

 

[eastbank]

i bought this winchester with bayonet and 1000 rounds of .30 carbine ammo for a very good price from the son of a man who liberated it from uncle sam in the 50,s. it went thru the arsenal rebuild program that most m-1 carbines did after ww-11. it is a very good shooter, but i don,t shoot it much any more. i would not trade it for five newly made carbines. eastbank.

 

[Dog Soldier]

eastbank, The Winchester M-1 Carb. is the Holy Grail of GI Carbs. They have the distinctive trigger assembly. The early safety and magazine releases needed an up grade.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Probably fairly difficult to actually find someone who has a repro Inland. I've handled a Kahr from a rack but never shot one. My impression was the receiver was way below a USGI in quality. It might be fine for someone who just wants to plink with one. I'm not sure what other parts are MIM but I suspect the trigger housing and possibly the slide. After examining one I don't think I would buy one. Of course I have some experience with several USGI Inlands and that isn't always 100% fantastic either. The first import I purchased needed a new barrel. Instead of replacing that I sold it. I made sure the next one I bought had a good barrel and all USGI parts. After some tuning and a bolt rebuild I have a reliable, high quality piece.

Here's a video of one jamming way too much. All carbines weather USGI or repro will jam with certain mags. My experience with USGI is bolts have to be maintained and mags have to be USGI if you want the best chance for a reliable rifle. Not sure what the problem was with the one in the video, I suspect the mag. He obviously isn't a carbine tuner. I think I could have made that one run. They are a lot like 1911's. Not for everyone.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Very nice report Ctran 49, During WWII the haste to provide weapons was paramount. The finish was not an issue. They were funtional and popular with our Military.
The Nazi Troops captured and used the "War Babies" when ever possible.

 

[loose noose]

Excellent video, I've never had a problem with my Iver Johnson M-1 carbine but that is a horse of a different color.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Very nice report Ctran 49, During WWII the haste to provide weapons was paramount. The finish was not an issue. They were funtional and popular with our Military.
The Nazi Troops captured and used the "War Babies" when ever possible.

Yes sir, I'm a big fan. I reload for mine and she goes to the range a few times a year. Last outing was with a writer working on a war novel. He wanted the first hand experience of actually shooting one. I set him up with a 1911A1 and a carbine. He has a good feel for it now.

 

[Dog Soldier]

ctrain49, Yes me to. I shoot cast bullets and Berry's Bullets as well. I also have a custom built Ruger BH .30 M-1 Caliber. It was made on a .45 Frame and all parts are critically fitted.
The War Babies are simply fun to shoot.

 

[hdwhit]

Omaney wrote:

No personal experience, but here is a site that has articles on just about all the post-war carbine makers. The link will take you to the page on Kahr, but you should have no trouble finding your way back to the homepage and the links to the other makers. Once there, click on the pictures of the caseheads.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_kahr.html

 

[Omaney]

So...does anyone have some real world experience with either of these two current production carbines?

I like reading anecdotes as much as the next guy but...

 

[Jimster]

I have plenty of real world experience with a new manufactured Inland Mfg M1 carbine. It jammed constantly and I sent it back for repairs 3 times. I guess 3 times is a charm because now it functions flawlessly. Seems very accurate although it rattles a bit. It shoots Winchester White Box fmj and my hand loaded fmj rounds. The sling and oiler are super difficult to install but it can be done.
I would not recommend one to a friend based on my personal experience. Maybe the newer ones have the bugs worked out. Good luck.

 

[hdwhit]

boom boom wrote:
...major issue that divides folks is the use of a cast receiver versus a forged one...

I agree that it is a major issue - not only with the M1 Carbine, but with other rifles as well - for potential purchasers.

In the middle of the 20th Century it perhaps should have been a concern, but firarms makers today have a great deal more experience with investment casting and alloy selection than they did when our fathers (even grandfathers) returned from combat nostalgic for the compact rifle they had carried. Any M1 Carbine receiver from any of the domestic re-production companies - whether cast or forged - should last its owner a lifetime.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I agree that it is a major issue - not only with the M1 Carbine, but with other rifles as well - for potential purchasers.

In the middle of the 20th Century it perhaps should have been a concern, but firarms makers today have a great deal more experience with investment casting and alloy selection than they did when our fathers (even grandfathers) returned from combat nostalgic for the compact rifle they had carried. Any M1 Carbine receiver from any of the domestic re-production companies - whether cast or forged - should last its owner a lifetime.

I'm not aware of any US military rifle in use presently with a cast receiver. They just haven't been time tested. I have pistols with MIM and so far no problems. A good question to ask yourself is would you buy a Ruger Mini 14 with a MIM receiver? If the answer is yes then I guess it isn't a problem.

Both Ruger and S&W have plenty of experience with MIM. I wouldn't be surprised if one of those companies didn't make those receivers.

 

[Omaney]

I have plenty of real world experience with a new manufactured Inland Mfg M1 carbine. It jammed constantly and I sent it back for repairs 3 times. I guess 3 times is a charm because now it functions flawlessly. Seems very accurate although it rattles a bit. It shoots Winchester White Box fmj and my hand loaded fmj rounds. The sling and oiled are super difficult to install but it can be done.
I would not recommend one to a friend based on my personal experience. Maybe the newer ones have the bugs worked out. Good luck.

See??? There we go.

 

[CoalTrain49]

If you are looking for a good USGI here is a very good document to read. It tells you what to look for.

http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/CarbineNotes.pdf

I know there are good used rifles out there for 1K. Just checked on one a few days ago.

 

[dieselchief]

of course all of you guys would turn down a springfield armory m1a which has had a cast receiver for like forever. lol just kidding but I had to say it.

 

[greyling22]

I'm Just astonished that with modern manufacturing techniques and tooling that they apparently cannot build something that works as well as something designed to be simple and easy to build, produced 75 years ago rushed out by several outfits that had never made a gun before.

 

[Jimster]

greyling22, I share your sentiments.

 

[Nuclear]

Well, the QA/QC on those GI carbines was the Feds in the form of the War Department.

Who knows how many were rejected and reworked.

If you can afford it, the Fulton Armory ($1400) and James River ($1200) make quality reproductions

 

[maxxhavoc]

I'm Just astonished that with modern manufacturing techniques and tooling that they apparently cannot build something that works as well as something designed to be simple and easy to build, produced 75 years ago rushed out by several outfits that had never made a gun before.

James River is doing just that. The new Rockolas are supposedly built to exact GI specs, except the metal has modern heat treatment. You have to pay to play though.

I have a 5-ish year old Auto Ordinance (Kahr) that has been great. The factory mag jammed a bit, but GI magazines work perfectly. My sling and oiler will not go onto it, the stock cutout is different from GI. I treated the stock with BLO, it was dry and pretty featureless out of the box.

It is reliable still after about 2k rounds, and keeps up with my SG in the accuracy department. Here are some comparisons with my SG GI.