New production, moderized Walther P38s

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Starbuck440, Aug 25, 2015.

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  1. Quercusalba

    Quercusalba Member

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    Starbuck, it would make more sense for Walther to update the P5.
    The P5C is still a viable carry gun with increasing value, as is the P5 though more modestly.
    Problem is that Walther is conservative and slow to adapt/change (being a smaller company than Sig or Glock) even though the PPS and P99 and PPQ were all ahead of their time.

    Look forward to the PPQ 45. The heritage of the P38 is present in the new Walthers.
     
  2. Gun Master

    Gun Master Member

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    P-38 Modernized ?

    Decisions, decisions ! I like the original P-38 (all steel), and have one ready for home invasion (also have a 1911 for same).
    Decisions, decisions! P-38, 1911, and I have a S&W Model 10 by my bedside.
    I feel I'm covered (not to mention the 12 and 20 gauge shotguns, SKS, etc.) .

    I would still like to see what a new all steel Walther P-38 could offer.:cool:
     
  3. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Member

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    Again - this already exists. It's called the P99AS.

    Except that it's more reliable, lighter, and more durable than the P38 design.
     
  4. Fremmer

    Fremmer Member

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    Except the P99 doesn't look anything like a P-38. My modernized design of the P-38 (other than losing the hammer and the thicker grip from the new double-stack mag) would retain the basic very-cool appearance of the P-38.
     
  5. Gun Master

    Gun Master Member

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    WALTHER P99 & Other

    Why are the newer Walthers (& others) starting to look like the Hi-Points ?:confused:

    And, what's the advantage of striker fired over firing pin/hammer fired ?:confused:

    I like the P-38 DA/Hammer Lowering Safety system.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
  6. giggitygiggity

    giggitygiggity Member

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    You're right... the Walther PPX looks very Hi Pointish. The PPQ, however, looks very modern and stylish IMO.
     
  7. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    1) No changing trigger pull/length/weight between the first and subsequent shots.
    2) No need to manipulate a decocking and/or safety lever.
    3) Snag-free design with no protruding hammer.
    4) Generally faster lock time.

    Many shooters don't much care about those things, or don't shoot at a level where they matter, but they seem to be part of the general trend in the progress of handgun design.
     
  8. Starbuck440

    Starbuck440 Member

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    Who cares about style? I mean Glocks are so ugly tears run down the back of their heads! However they work; very well. I'd trust my life to one, even if they are ugly. It boils down to what works.

    Anyway the reason I think a modernized P38 would work, is because SIG is very successful at winning LE and military contracts. The P38 and SIG 226 feel similar. My 60 year old P1 shot better than my 5 year old P226, which is a nail driver. And though why not? The P38 design can compete, it just needs a higher cap mag.

    The P38 design can compete with SIG, but the P99 cannot compete with Glock. If it could, you'd see alot more departments armed with the P99. However, SIG can and does compete with Glock. The P99 feels weird, the P38 does not. P1s were used for years by police in Europe, so design is obviously capable. It definitely proliferated more than the P99. I think its worth a shot with Walther. They already own the rights to the P38, and probably most of the tooling.
     
  9. cocojo

    cocojo Member

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    I would update the P-5 all the way. I have one and they are superb guns.
     
  10. DPris

    DPris Member Emeritus

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    Walther has no tooling for a P-38.
    The P-38 has a more ammo-sensitive feed system.
    The angle of approach to the feedramp & chamber involves more travel & is less of a "high-feed" design.
    The DA trigger is not known to be light.

    The P-38, somewhat like the 1911, was ground-breaking in its day, but has been surpassed by more modern designs.

    It has classic appeal, but limited practicality.
    Also limited market, even in somewhat "updated" form.

    Denis
     
  11. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Long and short of it is: If it was better, and enough consumers wanted it to justify the costs of tooling up to make it, they'd be doing so. It isn't. They don't. They aren't. They won't. So that's that.

    Sometimes you've just got to trust the macro-economics of the situation to give you the answers. If millions of folks AREN'T doing what you think is a great idea, it probably isn't a great idea.

    If you want to invest and gamble to try and change the world and make that thing happen, go ahead, put your money up and make it happen. It will either take off and be a great idea, or it will fail and prove the world was right after all.
     
  12. gripper

    gripper Member

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    I seem to recall a 1980's-1980's Croatian design, that had internals like a P38... There was a compact and a service sized gun,both had doubkestack magazines.
     
  13. Gun Master

    Gun Master Member

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    That would be the 1990's PHP MV 9, 4" barrel or VM 17, 5" barrel.
     
  14. Quentin

    Quentin Member

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    I like my P.38 and P1 but as far as modernization, it's pretty much been done with the Beretta M9 and family.

    Now if FN modernized their Hi Power - better sights, alloy or even polymer frame, shorter barrel, etc. ... now that would be interesting! Something along the lines of the Argentine FM Detective but lighter.
     
  15. Starbuck440

    Starbuck440 Member

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    The Browning HP is legendary. Check out the CZ-75, they feel pretty close to the HP.
     
  16. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Oh, what the hell....let's redesign and modernize the Luger too.






    Nah, let's not.....
     
  17. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Member

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    FN did make High Powers with alloy frames and better sights.
     
  18. Gun Master

    Gun Master Member

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    P-38 and PHP

    See postings # 37 & 38. The PHP was a good example of an attempt to modernize the P-38. While the P-38 had two slide rebounding bars, the PHP had only one below the slide, which was not as reliable a system and tended to cause functioning problems.
     
  19. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    I think a reasonably priced luger replica would sell well imo
     
  20. Gun Master

    Gun Master Member

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    Luger Replica

    Mitchell Arms tried, but Stoeger stole it from them, then it all went South. That was a nice gun.:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  21. Billy Shears

    Billy Shears Member

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    You forgot one more: striker fired designs usually allow the bore axis to sit lower down in the hand. Hammer fired designs have to make room for the lower end of the hammer -- the part where it pivots -- to sit in the upper grip area, and then more room around that for parts like the sear, drawbar, stirrup, mainspring (usually lower down in the grip), etc.. The rest of the mechanism has to sit on top of all this. The striker fired mechanism doesn't have to make all that room in the upper grip for this, and the whole thing can be lowered down a bit into the hand. The result is a lower bore axis, and thus a recoil impulse that is just a little more straight back and less inclined to torque the muzzle upward.
     
  22. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    None of those four characteristics is unique to striker guns. I wish people would stop referring to 'striker fired' when they mean 'Glock pattern' since it's not like that's the only striker design there is. I'm sure there's a striker gun somewhere that's had a decocker fitted to it, and I know for sure there are double, single, & in-between trigger action striker guns. Certainly there are striker guns with manual safeties. With the exception of obnoxious beaver-tailed 1911's and revolvers, the hammer is typically a very small, rounded spur that 'sticks out' in a holster less than the rear end of the slide in practice. The difference is even less when you account for the fact that striker slides stick out further to the rear. Faster lock time maybe, but hammer guns also tend to have superior triggers (or are capable of the same) and aren't as prone to light strikes due to the additional moving mass that makes them slower to swing.

    The main advantage of strikers is that they are much easier to disassemble than those pain-in-the-butt heavily tensioned hammer springs (leaf or coil) and ultimately require fewer parts in an industry where parts-count is expensive (Sig Sigma). I think whatever difference in bore-axis consideration is largely due to how the recoil spring arrangement is carried out, rather than the hammer; the R51 has a very low bore axis, and yet is an internally-shrouded hammer design (whose slide profile is very much like a striker gun's, due to the extra length of the shroud)

    TCB
     
  23. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Nice, if you could find one that actually worked. This subject came up a day or two ago on The Firing Line, and one owner there had to go through three of them from Mitchell before he got one that actually worked That was their reputation: shooting the Mitchell Luger was a bit like shooting craps.

    If you got one that worked, they were beautiful and functioned as a Luger should...
     
  24. lechiffre

    lechiffre Member

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    see also post #23 with picture and link to purchase.

    The Walther P99. It is also DA/SA.
     
  25. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    That is one ugly gun lol
     
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