Yep, I sold my new Model 686+ and 586 because they had crappy triggers compared to my new model Colts. Yeah I know you had an issue with your Colt. I don't care what you buy these days you will get a bad one now and then...The fight between Old Smith vs NeW Smith will never end. Same with Old Colt bs. New Colt
New Production S&W “No Locks”
- Thread starter Mr. Mosin
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Styx
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The newer Colts are more robust and are an upgrade from the older Colts granted proper QC. I don't think the old vs new S&W debate will every die. The older S&W proponents will lose their most important talking point if S&W kills the IL.
I'd prefer a newer Colt for actually carry and hard usage and the older Colt for collectors purposes. Both Colt, Ruger, and S&W have decent triggers or at the very least can easily be made to have a good trigger, so between the different platforms, the triggers are a moot point for me personally compared to other deciding factors. I can greatly improve the triggers on a Ruger and S&W and still be well under the price (by the hundreds) of a Colt.
I'd prefer a newer Colt for actually carry and hard usage and the older Colt for collectors purposes. Both Colt, Ruger, and S&W have decent triggers or at the very least can easily be made to have a good trigger, so between the different platforms, the triggers are a moot point for me personally compared to other deciding factors. I can greatly improve the triggers on a Ruger and S&W and still be well under the price (by the hundreds) of a Colt.
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Pat Riot
Contributing Member
You got that right.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
Here’s a thought; How many people that have b****ed and complained about S&W’s locks over the years will now go out and buy a new S&W revolver?
Who wants to bet they find another excuse to be PO’d about something?
Some people just can’t be happy unless they have something to whine, complain or be dramatic about.
Who wants to bet they find another excuse to be PO’d about something?
Some people just can’t be happy unless they have something to whine, complain or be dramatic about.
bigpower491
Member
Sounds good to me, I'll take em for hundreds of dollars off.....
The 586 i picked up just before Thanksgiving has probably the best DA trigger I've ever felt. There is no comparison between it and my Colt King Cobra Target, and I thought it's trigger was awesome.
Reckon musta got lucky with that smith
Mark_Mark
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looking at the Viper or Grizzly in Stainless. Wish Colt would make the Viper is .44 Special tho
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
For me the lock was one issue of many. However, without it, I'll consider them an option now. Depends on the model.
Mark_Mark
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I was at the Tactical Shop, the manager, who is a AR & Glock guy bought a 19 Carry Comp with the Port & Lock & New hammer. He didn’t care one bit about the Lock. I asked him why he bought it. His father left him a 19-2 and he didn’t want to shoot it, so he bought the tactical modern equivalent. So yeah, Not just “Gun People” would care but only “Classic Revolver Gun People” and that is most everyone here
Kookla
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in .44 special
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I never understood that. I'm not trying to put him in the ground before he's ready but the guns my old man actually uses would be the most valuable to me. Seems odd to in turn never use them myself.
buck460XVR
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"there" used gunmarket? I see little to no difference around me anymore between pre-lock and post-lock models on the used market. At first there was, but most folks have gotten over the whole "lock" thingy along with the distrust in MIM(that seemed to bug the purists more than the IL). As Mr. Mosin stated, these "no-lock' models are only a few of the whole line, and appeal to a relatively small niche in their overall market. There have been "no-lock" models in their SD line of snubbies for years and I have yet to see a dramatic difference in sales or ownership between them. Seems the minute a manufacturer stops production on something, it's value suddenly goes up. I'm not a collector, I'm a shooter. The lock has never been an issue to me as many of my post-lock models are more accurate than the same model in pre-lock. I'm sure the move has more to do with appealing to that small niche of folks that want the "old school" look in an "old school" model, than the little bit of bias towards the IL. BTJM.
Mark_Mark
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Yeah, his dad did the same, baby the gun and never fired it. But his gun his rules. But I hear ya!
Mark_Mark
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As long as the Gun is Silky Smooth and shoots straight!
Styx
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Bingo.Here’s a thought; How many people that have b****ed and complained about S&W’s locks over the years will now go out and buy a new S&W revolver?
Who wants to bet they find another excuse to be PO’d about something?
Some people just can’t be happy unless they have something to whine, complain or be dramatic about.
I will too at a discounted price, but, for example, I'm not paying full retail or high used market value for the Model 19 Classic with the IL now that S&W has the no IL option available.
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doubleh
Member
S&W probably hired an ad agency staffed by young people that have no Idea of the company's history to create the ad.
Never becoming a huge fan of DA revolvers I don't care how they make them. I only own one Smith revolver and it was made long before the lock appeared. It is a very nice gun that I seldom shoot. My handgun arsenal only includes three DA revolvers.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It's more than just the lock. It's more than just the hole in the side. It's the unnecessary complication it brings to the table. It's the government overreach that prompted it. It's more than just MIM parts that can't be fixed, only replaced. It's the finish work. It's the cheaper to manufacture two piece barrels that can't be cut or serviced. It's the piss-poor polishing. Even the Classic guns aren't as well done as standard blued guns were in the `80's when folks were deriding the Bangor-Punta era guns. The standard production stuff has all the soul of a stainless surgical instrument. People love to denigrate the "purists" without really understanding why they feel the way they do. This stuff doesn't matter to some folks but it matters to others.
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Styx
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The "gun guys" usually fall into one of the following categories:
- Older gun owners who grew up carrying prelock Smiths. They will always complain about how much better older S&W and Colts are and how bad all modern-day guns are ad nauseam.
- Ruger/Colt guys who never miss an opportunity to try and guide others to buy what they own and like.
- The 2A extremist who will hate S&W, Springfield Arms, etc. for life no matter what for political and principle reasons. They'll have a neverending grudge against post Clinton era S&W revolvers.
I'm in the camp of preferring no IL if that option is available. That's because cosmetically, the revolver looks better, and because I know there will always be more demand and higher resale/collector value on no-lock Smiths, new or old. That said, I am not opposed to buying one with the IL because functionally there's really no difference when it comes to carrying and shooting the darn things. But yea, most people do not care about the IL, MIM parts, etc. which is why S&W has been able to sell hundreds of thousands of revolvers annually. Most gun owners just do not care, and the loud minority who do care will find something to complain about no matter what S&W does.
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jeff-10
Member
I've always put S&W behind Ruger and Colt in the revolver category. I have two Smith's. a 29-3 and 686+. I may pick up a new Model 19 without a lock since I don't have a 4" 357. But I am leaning towards a Kimber K6 Combat.
Piedmont Plinker
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I see this as an absolute win.
We've had no-lock J-frames for a while and that's the direction they were telegraphing with the 32/42 UC series--those were supposed to be J-frame 2.0.
I think this is the first no-lock K-frame we've seen, and while it's in the Classics line it's a regular production gun not a distributor exclusive. It's, IIRC, the first square butt production and pencil barrel (regular, with respect to the Heavy Duty) production as well.
A hopeful reading of this fact is that they're tooling up for no-lock production across the board.
I'd love to see a new 66 2.5" lockless, or 3" 65, or an Ultimate Carry K-frame variety (2" 612 with Novaks, please?). A no-lock 69 would also sell very well I think, as those are popular woods guns.
My SWAG is that the next lockless frame will be the L, to compete with the Pythons and GP-100s.
Revolvers are having a moment right now and I think that's good for everyone. I think S&W is responding to developments from brands like Colt, Henry, and Heritage (Roscoe). I wish PSA would bring back H&R revolvers.
We've had no-lock J-frames for a while and that's the direction they were telegraphing with the 32/42 UC series--those were supposed to be J-frame 2.0.
I think this is the first no-lock K-frame we've seen, and while it's in the Classics line it's a regular production gun not a distributor exclusive. It's, IIRC, the first square butt production and pencil barrel (regular, with respect to the Heavy Duty) production as well.
A hopeful reading of this fact is that they're tooling up for no-lock production across the board.
I'd love to see a new 66 2.5" lockless, or 3" 65, or an Ultimate Carry K-frame variety (2" 612 with Novaks, please?). A no-lock 69 would also sell very well I think, as those are popular woods guns.
My SWAG is that the next lockless frame will be the L, to compete with the Pythons and GP-100s.
Revolvers are having a moment right now and I think that's good for everyone. I think S&W is responding to developments from brands like Colt, Henry, and Heritage (Roscoe). I wish PSA would bring back H&R revolvers.
jeff-10
Member
I think the next ones will be the 25, 27 and 29 since they are in the Classics line now I believe.
unclenunzie
Contributing Member
Thinking about this some more in light of history and what others here have said - S&W competes against their own used market. As time has passed older, preferred models have lost free CS. Bringing back no-lock modernized versions makes them attractive and will dent the used market and their competition. They make nothing on the used market. I still think the Heritage-badged Taurus 85 Roscoe is real nice for the price, but I'd much rather have a new no-lock 36, not caring much about the oddities people have pointed out.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
I have seen and heard this so many times. Young guys who weren’t even born in 2000 espousing hate and vitriol over S&W and the locks.
4 or 5 years ago had one young gent tell me that I was an idiot for buying a Smith & Wesson with a lock. I was showing him and his friends my revolvers at an indoor range. My first instinct was to react badly, but I held my temper. I invited him to shoot my guns. He shot my 10-7 and my 19-4 then I loaded up 8 rounds of spicy .357 in my 327 Night Guard (with a lock) and let him give it a try. He really liked the 327 and admitted he didn’t know much about S&W revolvers or the locks. I let him fire a couple more cylinders in the 327 then I explained that the lock doesn’t hurt the action or shooting of the gun and that maybe he shouldn’t be so harsh on something he had very little familiarity with. He agreed. He told me again how much he liked my 327 and then he and his friends left.
I am not a fan of the locks, but so far they really haven’t been a problem for me in the guns that have them.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Not just locks but tons of stuff. I reckon at least half the crap people say online is just regurgitating something they heard someone else say. And I don't mean something in print, written by someone with a reputation to uphold, like Ross Seyfried or John Taffin but their fellow numbskulls. Not everybody listens to the smart ones. That's what's wrong with the internet generation. They're listening to free info from their fellow dummy instead of reading books and articles written by actual experts. I tell people on Facebook, there's a guy on several groups named Tom Sappington. If you just listen to him, you'll never be steered wrong. Kinda like "rcmodel" was here. On the other hand, there's dummies who spent 50yrs in plumbing that think it makes them experts in metallurgy as it pertains to firearms construction. Ya gotta be smart enough to pick the right teachers. 
