New Ruglin 45-70 Trapper is a real punisher

I shoot 55 grains of IMR 3031 behind a Sierra 300 grain hollow point out of a handi-rifle

 

That just sounds terribly unfriendly. If I'm shooting a shoulder cannon I want the sectional density of the 405.

 

The problem with Unique is.. I have less than a lb. left and 45-70 would use alot of that up. And I can't find it on the shelves. I can download IMR (or H) 4198 to trapdoor levels, which I will be doing soon.
I've never done black powder and it does sound fun. Would I be looking for some ffg or pyrodex, or what should I use?

 

Swiss black powder. I think, but don't know, or have proof, but I find that the recoil from 1fg is a "bit" softer than the finer grains. I certainly prefer it with 140 grain loads in my Brown Bess. I just recently got a supply of Scheutzen, but have not tried it yet in a rifle. Generally speaking, 2fg is a good choice for a rifle load. I use 3fg Swiss in my .45-70 80 grain load, just to get as much oooomph as I can get. If recoil was a concern, and oomph was not a concern I'd go with 1fg.

You know, Unique would work, I've loaded it in other smaller cartridges with less than 50% loading density, I don't argue with that, but there just seems to be much better choices when you take case capacity into consideration. Yes I'd save it for pistol loads.

 

I have fired both 8 and 4 bore elephant rifles, propelling bullets from 1800-2000 grains, With anywhere from 250-385 grains of FG as propellant. There is nothing gentile about the recoil. It is brutal. Years ago I loaded up some 500 gr. loads for my 45-70 I loaded both black ( FFG ) and smokeless to the same velocity, around 1200 FPS. I could tell no difference in the recoil. I think this is one of those myths the got started long ago and repeated through the years until now everybody believes it. One must remember that black powder is classified as an explosive, not a propellent. It is possibly the weakest of all explosives with a detonation rate of 800 meters per second, but it is a true explosive. For comparison, TNT has a det. rate of around 8000 MPS, if memory serves me correctly.

 

I've heard that pyrodex is corrosive.

 

Yea, but I can find it in the store. I would just make certain to clean the bore well afterward.
I did load up another 10 rounds using a reduced load of 32 gr IMR 4189 ( between that and H4198 I have maybe 3 lbs.).
That load out of my 16" barrel would probably be about 1200 fps. Even after yesterday's session that charge wasn't too bad.

 

That was/is just my opinion, based on my experience, which does not make it a myth, (a lot of "myth-shaming" here lately) (or is the term "piling on"?)(is the moon in a grumpy phase?) even though your experience is different than mine. I would agree that when you fire the really big boys, it would be hard if not impossible to detect any difference.

 

Deadliest load on white tailed deer I have ever pulled the trigger on. I have killed deer out to 225 yards. When I developed this load I was still hunting in West Virginia. Creeping along slowly . Most shots were when the deer stood up you had just a few seconds to make the shot . I wanted something to anchor them right there. Had one deer make one jump the other 7 we're bang flop

 

Thanks for posting !
That little Rascal looks like a bad Mama Jama ... Lordy I wished I were 20 years younger...
The recoil of the 45-70 is something to be reckoned with .... And both of my retina's have become detached over the years ... and the doctor said he might not be able to reconnect the one that's in my good eye again ...
I have to lay off the heavy hammer's .
But 25 years ago and I would have been all over that bad boy .
I had hoped Ruger could work some magic with Marlin , thanks for giving us the range report.
P.S. If your vision stays blurry for 24 hours you might want to get an eye exam .
Gary

 

TNT det velocity is 6940 M/S

 

Three words. Trail Boss. Limbsaver.

A Limbsaver tamed my 405 Winchester. Actually, Pachmayr Decelerator pads are good too. A Pachmayr pad tamed my 300 WSM.

 

Best $70 you will ever spend....
https://www.levergunleather.com/p_buttstock_covers.htm
It will completely change your perception of felt recoil...

 

Anyone know what kind of pad Ruger is shipping on these new 1895's?

 

Looks like a one inch pad. Black. Says Marlin on it. That is a step up from those half inch hard rubber Ruger pads.

 

Thank you, and are these Ruger Marlin factory pads similar in softness to a limbsaver or pachmayr, or are they something harder?

 

Having had several 45/70s Ruger No 1,Browning 1885 and 86 and a Sharps 1874 the Sharps is the only one that doesn't beat me up but it weighs close to 14 lbs,great for shooting from a bench not so much for carrying. Long Range Express 34" heavy barrel enen with 520 gr bullets it's like shooting a giant 22.

 

What he said. When you're standing, you can lean in and then let the recoil push you back. When you're sitting at the bench, you're just a solid mass that the recoil is going to smack into.

 

Yes, you would only get about 600 loads per pound of Unique. Finding the powder would be a challenge, so using reduced charges of 4198 that you already have makes good sense. I’ve never downloaded IMR4198 that low, but Hodgdon’s starting load is 30.0 grains which is well below your current load. Good luck.




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Not sure how you’d know that, considering most of the herds were pretty much gone by 1878 and the military Springfield wasn’t in a lot of hunters’ hands until well after 1873. Many great buffalo hunt experts put the .50-70 as more likely to have killed the most of any single caliber considering it had been surplussed by then and was cheap and available. Your comment seems pretty unsupported.

Have you ever seen a bison “knocked over” by a .45-70? I watched a hunting buddy shoot a medium-sized bison with his rollingblock loaded with a 400-grain cast bullet over BP. The animal reacted just like you’d expect a large animal to - flinched at the shot, trotted a few dozen yards, laid down and died.

Words have meaning. I guess “knocked over” just means killed rather than actually knocking an animal off its feet like most posters seem to mean. I learned something here….to add you to the ignore list. Bye.




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Not a fan of rifles that hurt me more than what I am shooting. Totally unnecessary, but I understand the attraction.

 

With 405gr and I4198 you can go down all the way to 22ish grains for really light loads.

Personally I load in the 24-25.4gr range for 1000-1100FPS out of my Henry BB steel side gate. I can shoot 40rds of these from the bench across and hour or two and be fine. And I do consider myself recoil sensitive. When I first got my Henry and some factory Hornady 325gr FTX and some small shop 300gr Berry's plated and went to the range I though I had made a grave mistake, lol. I had never shot 45-70 before that.

Later I got into hand loading and dialed charges down to a level that's much more fun for me. Now it's one of my favorites to shoot.

 

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I wuz going from memory. What's a thousand meters per second or so among friends?

 

Haven't got a clue. My Rugers all had that hard rubber half inch pad. I had to replace them with something that works, except for my KHornet. Skimpy pad doesn't matter on a Hornet, lol.