New Sig P365 in .380. Why??

[Mosin77]

1. Noticeably less recoil than 9mm in the same sized gun, which should theoretically equate to more aimed hits faster, all else being equal.

2. Noticeably easier to rack slide since it can be a little lighter and use a softer spring. This matters for women and older folks.

3. .380 isn’t a pipsqueak round and while it’s less optimal than 9mm in terms of acceptable ballistics with less effort, it is possible to find .380 loads that meet those famous FBI penetration + expansion metrics, especially with a 3+ inch barrel, which the P365 has.

What it means is that you’re locked into boutique ammo for top capability, but in theory you can get the same effectiveness as the 9mm but with less recoil, which is a net gain, and more market share from the ladies to boot (which is probably the main motivation.)

I want one!

Edited to add: The typical .380s are blowbacks because they are cheaper to make, so old logic was, make a cheap blowback with the biggest possible cartridge that was manageable. = .380, or 9mm mak, or an occasional actual 9mm, like the Astra 600 (or a hi point with their massive slide). Shoot a blowback 9mm Astra and shoot a blowback 380 like a PPK, and they feel about equally unpleasant. A 9mm locked breech is softer, and a .380 locked breech is softer yet.

 

[gc70]

380 is lighter recoil for some women.

That is what my neighbor the former NY cop and retired federal agent thought. He carried a Glock 27 because anything less than 40 caliber was not enough.

He got enthused over the size of a Ruger LC9 and bought one for times when anything larger would not work. We went to the range to try his new toy and for laughs I carried a LC380. After shooting a bit, he let rip to see how fast he could do a mag dump and stay on target with the LC9. I proceeded to blaze away with the LC380, shooting markedly faster and with more accuracy than the LC9. Then he had to try the LC380 and did the same thing.

EVERYONE can shoot faster and usually more accurately with a gun with less recoil. Lighter recoil is simply a matter of physics.

 

[mgmorden]

A locked breech .380 recoils less than a similar 9x19, and can also have a lighter recoil spring allowing easier slide racking.

A carry gun isn't meant to be a barometer for how manly you are - it's just a tool.

 

[pairof44sp]

9mm is heavy recoil??? Perhaps some would be better served with pepper spray if they think 9mm is heavy recoil.

Hi. I’ve never shot a 9mm. Only a P238 380.

How would 9mm recoil compare to 380 out of a 15oz p238?

or say a 642 shooting 38 +p?

I’m thinking of joining the modern world (of plastic 9s), but not if that world kicks as bad as 44 snub-world (my current abode).

 

[pairof44sp]

That is what my neighbor the former NY cop and retired federal agent thought. He carried a Glock 27 because anything less than 40 caliber was not enough.

He got enthused over the size of a Ruger LC9 and bought one for times when anything larger would not work. We went to the range to try his new toy and for laughs I carried a LC380. After shooting a bit, he let rip to see how fast he could do a mag dump and stay on target with the LC9. I proceeded to blaze away with the LC380, shooting markedly faster and with more accuracy than the LC9. Then he had to try the LC380 and did the same thing.

EVERYONE can shoot faster and usually more accurately with a gun with less recoil. Lighter recoil is simply a matter of physics.

If you don’t mind, I will join your mousegun crusade.

Mostly to justify my own collection, which happens to be a pair of 32s and a pair of 380s, because those were the last four cheap new semi autos in America when I got into guns last July.

To be frank, I’ve already been all over YouTube comment sections, barking about how much better 32acp is than whatever the guntuber is talking about in his vid.

Shot Placement is King, and I, a loyal Knight of His realm. Let this crusade against the Muzzlerisers begin!

 

[Mosin77]

I think my wife’s P238 (a .380 Colt clone) recoils noticeably less than my friend’s P365 in 9mm. I don’t find the P365 unmanageable at all, but the .380 will be even better, with the disadvantage of having to be very diligent about searching for loads that perform well enough (and can be actually found in this market.)

 

[Riomouse911]

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

A Desert Eagle in .380? That’s one I would chalk up to silly. A SIG 365? That’s one I can see selling lots of units for the reasons listed above.

I’ll never buy one because I have it bracketed several times over, but I can think of a lot of folks who may.

Stay safe.

 

[George P]

9mm is heavy recoil??? Perhaps some would be better served with pepper spray if they think 9mm is heavy recoil.

Guess all us older folks, some of whom have some serious arthritis issues might take exception to your arrogance

 

[ulflyer]

I have a Bersa BP9 and a Walther PPS 9mm, both of which I like. Then I got a Sig 365XL and the recoil is much more tolerable. I think it is because the Sig has a wider grip. Therefore I suspect the Sig 380 will be a nice guy with light recoil for those of us who need it.

 

[MistWolf]

Now, if we can only get Sig to make a P365X RomeoZero in 22LR

 

[JR24]

Now, if we can only get Sig to make a P365X RomeoZero in 22LR

I'm sure they eventually will, before discontinuing it shortly after. Sig loves to introduce new models and dump them in dizzying fashion.

 

[WYO]

I’m interested. I would have preferred a scaled down magazine and grip, but the trimmer, lighter slide may still bring something new to the table for pocket carry that moves the Glock 42 out the door.

 

[Howland937]

For some people, recoil is in their mind as much as their hand. My S.O. won't shoot a full size 1911 9mm, but she'll burn up .380's in my (her) P238.
Recoil in the steel frame 1911 is virtually non-existent but she WILL NOT try it. Tell her something shoots the same round as "her" gun , and she's fine with it. Obviously she doesn't understand and all the explaining I've tried hasn't put her mind at ease. So, there are mental limitations that can also justify a 365 .380, as well as the physical and possibly legal limitations others have mentioned.

Besides, just having something different can be fun too.

 

[Garandimal]

...EVERYONE can shoot faster and usually more accurately with a gun with less recoil. Lighter recoil is simply a matter of physics.

...on Both ends of the bullet's path.

.380 ACP - is a minimum micro CCW/SD round.

Both expansion and penetration are more reliable in the 9mm, and more still in the .40 and .45 ACP.

While it is still useful - would need a reason to choose it.




GR

 

[Trey Veston]

Guess all us older folks, some of whom have some serious arthritis issues might take exception to your arrogance

My mom has arthritis and my dad and I helped her choose a new handgun, because the Ruger LCP in .380 she had was useless to her. She couldn't rack the slide, couldn't handle the recoil, couldn't work the safety, and couldn't load rounds into the magazine.

We took her to the gun shop and had her handle the S&W Shield EZ, which is designed for those with weak hand strength. It worked brilliantly for her.

Most .380 pistols will do nothing for people like her because they still have stiff controls, hard to load magazines, and slides that can't be racked. Making the P365 in .380 really doesn't do anything for most people with significant arthritis, like my mom. Assuming she can manipulate the controls of any .380 pistol sounds a bit arrogant on your part, don't you think?

 

[Garandimal]

My mom has arthritis and my dad and I helped her choose a new handgun, because the Ruger LCP in .380 she had was useless to her. She couldn't rack the slide, couldn't handle the recoil, couldn't work the safety, and couldn't load rounds into the magazine.

We took her to the gun shop and had her handle the S&W Shield EZ, which is designed for those with weak hand strength. It worked brilliantly for her.

Most .380 pistols will do nothing for people like her because they still have stiff controls, hard to load magazines, and slides that can't be racked. Making the P365 in .380 really doesn't do anything for most people with significant arthritis, like my mom. Assuming she can manipulate the controls of any .380 pistol sounds a bit arrogant on your part, don't you think?

And the EZ has a 3.7" Bbl... as opposed to the 3.1" Bbl'ed P365.

Will help w/ above mentioned expansion and penetration.




GR

 

[Paul7]

In real world SD situtations, there isn't much if any difference between .380 and 9mm. Here's two thugs that didn't get the memo that a .380 is ineffective for SD:

 

[Garandimal]

In real world SD situtations, there isn't much if any difference between .380 and 9mm. Here's two thugs that didn't get the memo that a .380 is ineffective for SD:

Have you actually watched the vid...?

Had the perps not been degenerate cowards, and, instead, been your average criminal sociopaths instead...?

The Good Sam would have been shot, probably to death.


This - is what an SD shooting should look like...

Mableton Gun Store Owner Fatally Shot Robbery Suspect (Video)​

GR

 

[Paul7]

Have you actually watched the vid...?

Yes, why do you ask?

Had the perps not been degenerate cowards, and, instead, been your average criminal sociopaths instead...?

The Good Sam would have been shot, probably to death.

Nonsense, perps may be criminals, but they aren't stupid. They aren't going to stick around analyzing what caliber bullet is whizzing by their head.

This

- is what an SD shooting should look like...

Mableton Gun Store Owner Fatally Shot Robbery Suspect (Video)​

GR

Your link doesn't work. Here is a chart showing there is really no difference between .380 and 9mm in real world self defense situations. I suspect the 'bigger is better' crowd probably hunt deer and elk with belted magnums too.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

 

[Garandimal]

Yes, why do you ask?



Nonsense, perps may be criminals, but they aren't stupid. They aren't going to stick around analyzing what caliber bullet is whizzing by their head.




Your link doesn't work. Here is a chart showing there is really no difference between .380 and 9mm in real world self defense situations. I suspect the 'bigger is better' crowd probably hunt deer and elk with belted magnums too.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

The link is now fixed.

As for the .380...?

How many times did the Good Sam shoot... and to what effect?

He could have been chasing those cowardly rodents away w/ a cap gun.

Watch this fixed Link


That old man w/ the .380 is lucky to be alive.




GR

 

[Paul7]

The link is now fixed.

As for the .380...?

How many times did the Good Sam shoot... and to what effect?

It stopped the crime, they were tripping over each over getting out. That is the point, not killing people necessarily.

He could have chased those cowardly rodents away w/ a cap gun.

ANY gun fired in the direction of a perp has a good chance of running them off, they are most likely not suicidal.

Watch this fixed Link

That old man w/ the .380 is lucky to be alive.
GR

No, the perps are, did you read my link? The dead perp in your link would probably have run off had the shot missed (like the perps partner ran off who wasn't shot that we know of), or possibly if he even saw the gun, and now the gun store owner, depending on the DA in his jurisdiction, could face a long, expensive legal nightmare. I can just see the perp's mom, "You killed my baby, he was just turning his life around!.....racism, blah, blah, blah."

We had a real life case in my area a few years ago where a burgler was followed by an armed citizen, the perp broke the driver's side window and started beating the driver following him, who killed the perp with one shot with a .380, as it happened. He was involved in the legal process for years and spent tens of thousands of dollars in the effort, all because of an idiot liberal DA.

As for the OP, it is much better for someone to shoot a lower recoiling gun well than a harder recoiling gun poorly, not everyone wanting to defend themselves are gun people.

 

[defjon]

Might be a good idea, maybe 10 in the 9mm becomes like 14 in 380? That would be interesting.

Maybe 12 becomes 16?

 

[Paul7]

Might be a good idea, maybe 10 in the 9mm becomes like 14 in 380? That would be interesting.

Maybe 12 becomes 16?

Supposedly the average SD situation is 3 shots, 3 seconds, 3 feet. Yes more rounds are better but the heavier a gun is the less likely it is to be carried.

 

[Garandimal]

It stopped the crime, they were tripping over each over getting out. That is the point, not killing people necessarily.

It stopped THAT pathetic crime.

He had a gun pointed at his head when he started to shoot.

ANY criminal choosing to shoot back would have killed him... and then run off.

ANY gun fired in the direction of a perp has a good chance of running them off, they are most likely not suicidal.

He was spraying bullets into a crowded room.

A solid hit from a stopping round would have ended it.

The dead perp in your link would probably have run off had the shot missed, or possibly if he even saw the gun, and now the gun store owner...

Sure, because all armed criminals... especially those robbing Gun Stores, where Owners and employees are known to be armed... are planning to just run away.

That's why they brought Two guns... so they would be balanced when they ran.

"Yeah... That's the ticket..."




GR

 

[SwampWolf]

For me, the .380 is a niche gun in that if I carry one for self-defense it has to be as small and as light as practical for reasons of concealment in warm weather or social circumstance. Anything much bigger and/or heavier than, say, a Kel-Tec 3AT or Ruger LCP, is going to be chambered in 9mm or bigger.